E258: When Not Drinking Feels Louder Than Drinking

Have you ever been at a party, wedding, or holiday gathering holding a soda and felt like everyone noticed you weren’t drinking?

In this episode of Sober Friends, Matt and Steve talk honestly about what it’s like to be the only sober person in the room—especially early on. They dig into why sobriety can feel uncomfortable in social settings, why it’s not really about the alcohol, and how losing that “social lubricant” can make everything feel louder and more exposed.

They explore the spotlight effect, identity shifts, guilt and shame from past behavior, and why being around heavy or sloppy drinking can still feel unsettling—even with time sober. Most importantly, they share practical tools that actually help: making phone calls, having an exit plan, taking action when your mind starts spiraling, and learning skills that make social situations manageable instead of overwhelming.

If you’re navigating parties, holidays, weddings, or work events without alcohol—and wondering if you’re doing sobriety “wrong”—this episode is for you. You’re not weak. You’re not broken. And it does get easier.

Transcript

Matt: 0:00

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Steve: 0:42

You know, there's a lot of sayings in AA and one of the sayings we hear all the time is move a muscle change a thought. And that is if you're sitting there dwelling on anything really any anything that's troubling you, but alcohol related, especially is to get up and physically do something guys. You should say, go bear guys say, go shave. Go brush your teeth. Like literally get up and do something. And that's the same thing about picking up that phone and dialing that number. That by the time you get through when you hear that phone ring, you've already changed your thought pattern. So regardless if anybody picks up you've already interrupted that, that whatever that loop was going on. And many times it doesn't require somebody picking up. It only requires you to take that action. An it's if you're not familiar with that, you should try.

Matt: 1:35

Welcome to the super friends podcast. This is a place to hang out if you're so curious if you have some sobriety. You got a lot of sobriety. Go a little bit of sobriety. Everybody needs an extra meeting. And this is one of those in your pocket. My name is Matt J. Steve is with me here. And Steve, there's the question for you today, if you've ever been at a party or wedding, holding soda and suddenly felt like everybody noticed that you weren't drinking, I have felt that way. I don't know if it was reality, but I felt that way. What about you?

Steve: 2:11

There's no question I felt that way. And there's no question that in smaller gatherings, it was true. Right. I

Matt: 2:17

mean, small

Steve: 2:19

gatherings might be six or eight of us that I would be the only person not drinking. And I talk about I have some high school friends that we still get together with, which will be almost 50 years that we've known we've known each other for more than 50 years. And most of those guys are still drinking, it's just one other guy in the group that I hang out with, who' in recovery, he's not always there when we get together. So sometimes I am the only person in that group who's not drinking. And, you know, I've known these guys long enough that it doesn't matter. And, but, yeah, there's always this thing. We always feel like, you know, everybody's looking at us and, and you know, what do we do with that feeling. But sometimes it's true. And especially during the holidays, right.

Matt: 3:06

It's easy to write.

Steve: 3:06

It's easy to feel like that during the holidays, especially, you know, when we just got through with Christmas and we got new years coming up. It's very, very easy to be at a place where it truly is that most people are drinking and you're not.

Matt: 3:22

This is one of those things that I think is acute early on. Maybe not as true that everybody's as you might. And that's what we're going to kind of talk about here today. It's not the alcohol. It's the identity shift early on when before, hey, I quit drinking for almost a year back in 2001, 2002. I wasn't getting any treatment for it. So I was dry. I remember going to weddings, going to a party. I wasn't drinking. And it felt like the spotlight was on me. And I was uncomfortable because other people were drinking. And I wasn't.

Steve: 4:06

Yeah.

Matt: 4:07

And here's why I don't have any coping skills. I didn't know how to navigate a party without being without having alcohol in my hand, because I didn't know another way and I didn't have, I didn't have A skills recovery skills and I didn't have any practical skills. What do you think it is that makes people feel like they're suddenly outsiders.

Steve: 4:40

I, I think for myself, um, I was so self-conscious about my drinking and. And I knew that, you know, we're talking most of the time what we're talking about is people who had seen us drinking the past. Right.

Matt: 4:56

Yes.

Steve: 4:57

If we went to somewhere, we didn't know anybody. We would probably wouldn't feel that way as much. But when you go somewhere a wedding, a family gathering, a party, and then all of a sudden you're not drinking, especially this early sobriety, all of a sudden you're not drinking and people have seen you drinking. And they know how you drink.

Matt: 5:14

Uh-huh.

Steve: 5:15

So all of a mackle, it just becomes this self-consciousness of being uncomfortable. Right. Like, Because most of us, at that time, like you said, whether you were dry or even an early sobriety, we're not out there telling everybody, right, we're not out there telling everybody, you know, you may be telling people this day and age has changed some, I'm not drinking, right? You might say that, I'm not drinking. And, uh, but I just know for me, you know, people had seen me drink a certain way and I thought, and again, this is also that self-centered, ego thing where we think that everybody's looking at us. I thought everybody wouldn't, wouldn't know that I'm not drinking. And I don't think that's the truth for most places that I went. Again, if I got together with my high school buddies and I wasn't drinking, Absolutely, they're noticing it, right? There's

Matt: 6:07

hmm.

Steve: 6:07

six, eight, 10, 12, depending on the group. Um, sir, they're absolutely noticing. Um, and early on, they noticed and it was very, uncomfortable for me because I wasn't ready to tell these guys. I was an alcoholic that I wasn't drinking. Um, and I'd never discussed with these guys to hold. They know I'm in recovery. Now we talk about it, um, a little bit more open, but I don't talk about it with them at all. They know it and then like I said, I have another friend who shows up once in a while, he's in recovery. So we hang out together a lot. When that whole group gets together, we'll hang out a bunch and we'll talk and, uh, check in on each other. But I just think it's this whole thing that we're uncomfortable and we're uncomfortable with our past, right? Um, that's

Matt: 6:45

rights.

Steve: 6:46

We're uncomfortable with, you know, here's what the other thing I think of is like, did I act like a jerk in front of these people at some point that I don't remember, right?

Matt: 6:56

Oh, yeah.

Steve: 6:57

Right. And like, when I'm drinking, I don't care about that. Right? This is a point. Like, if I'm drinking, that doesn't bother me. But once I take the alcohol away, then I start thinking, Oh, how did I behave? Is there something that now that I'm sober and now that I have a clear head that I've done that I don't, I don't remember. So there's a lot of stuff that comes through with that for me that made it uncomfortable early on. Not so much today, but early on for sure.

Matt: 7:30

Gosh, I didn't even think about the guilt that I might have felt because I'm aware I might have done something to make me feel guilty in situations like that. I don't know if I remember feeling that way, but that's an ouchy that I sure can remember feeling like I'm doing something that I'm going to feel guilty about later on while I was drinking. I think for me, it was more the social, the social, the social lubricant. And I think also part of this is I had a certain identity when was drinking, especially with wine, that I was the wine connoisseur that I knew about craft beers and stuff. And now I have nothing to talk about, or I see other people drinking the things that I like to drink. And I don't have the ability to join in with that. Now I am on the outside looking in. And that's even worse for me because I don't have the social lubricant. And now I'm not part of the club. I used to be part of when I'm not part of the overall, like two circles there. I'm not part of the circle of going to the party. And I'm not part of the inner circle of the things that I used to really like, which really set you up for failure. Now, is everybody really watching you? No, they're not. The people who are, if somebody comes up and is watching you, they may have a problem. Those are the people who are suspect. But they don't. They're looking at their own internal issues. People are concerned about themselves, not you.

Steve: 9:19

Yeah. And you also have those people who probably noticed that you're drinking too much, right? People who aren't. And they probably watched you from afar. I'm thinking more mostly probably relatives who are probably like, well, look at how much Steve is drinking. They might be watching you and they might notice too.

Matt: 9:39

Oh,

Steve: 9:40

Steve's not drinking. I don't know what to put that.

Matt: 9:43

He's not drinking. Thank God.

Steve: 9:44

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that was. Thank God. But like you were talking about that social lubricant and somebody just brought this up at one of our meetings. And they were talking about those first couple drinks. Right? I mean, those first couple drinks, which really are helpful. They are that social lubricant, where you relax, you know, your shoulders relax. Some guy was talking about this at the Alcatán when I was there. And I thought about that. He described it. And it's one of those things where somebody will describe a drink and you start thinking like, oh, I could taste that drink. And he was talking about how, yeah, those first few drinks when my whole, my whole shoulders would relax. And all of a sudden, I'd become relaxed. I just dressed, would go away. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, that's why we, that's why we loved alcohol because that's why people drink today, right? And that's why people who can do that have that one or two drinks. They relax and they're like, oh, I'm good now. But so when you take away that social lubricant, I don't know, I felt more. Uhm, uh, in the spotlight, I felt more- I just felt more uncomfortable, until I learned, again, you- you said it, you had no skills, right? I had no skills, and I- I've never been a shy person, like, I don't have that problem, it's not like I'm an introvert. But,

Matt: 11:06

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 11:06

you removed the alcohol, and then all of a sudden, I didn't have skills to- how to deal with it. And again, even in early sobriety when I was working a program, I still hadn't developed those skills, right? I mean, just because I'm recovering, just come on doing 12 stuff, just come on going to meetings. Doesn't mean I've mastered the skills that I need to master, to make me comfortable in those situations. And that's not even true- that probably didn't even a true statement anyway, because I could get uncomfortable in those situations today.

Matt: 11:36

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 11:37

You put me in a certain situation where there's a lot of drinking, I could get really uncomfortable, really fast. And- but today I have the skill, so I know what I could do with it, right? I mean, I do. I have the toolbox of if you want to use that term, I have the skills, I can make a phone call, I could do whatever I need to do, to make myself comfortable, whether I need to just bridge a gap and get out of a certain feeling, or I need to get in my car and go, right? I mean,

Matt: 12:04

Yes.

Steve: 12:05

But, uh, you know, I- but I have those skills, and I have that ability to do all of those things today.

Matt: 12:12

Ooh, I want to come back. I'm thinking through. Where do we want to go with this? Because now I want to explore the people who are the

Steve: 12:19

drink.

Matt: 12:19

heavy It's even now. The sloppy people versus, there's just drinking around. And I want to talk about some solutions here to help get you through that. Well, gosh, I, I really want to explore first the heavy drinker because that gives me, that gives me pause even now. But it's a different type of I'm uncomfortable. It's not like I wish I could join in on the drinking thing. It's now when I get around the people who are really, really drunk. That sets me back to trauma earlier in my youth, younger. I am always uncomfortable around people who are sloppy drunk. And it's not for the spotlights on me. It's, I need to run away that I am in a threatened environment. I am in danger. And that is always how I have felt around people like that. So that's sort of a, that's sort of a different feeling. And that in itself takes its own amount of tools and skills to deal with of, because I think a lot of it is or something in me. And it's like, it's not me. It's them. And I don't need to be afraid now. Because I can get up and walk away. I'm not a child, but I also wasn't thinking about even when I have the skills early on. It's tough. Because when you, you develop those, if you don't develop the skills, you're a dry drunk. And I don't think you're ever going to get comfortable. If you develop tools, you can manage this. But I'm also forgetting about early on. If I have the tools and it's early on. And it's still sucks. I'll give you an example. I remember, I mean, this wasn't everybody's drunk. But we went to a minor league baseball game in Hartford. Beautiful stadium, beautiful experience. But these new stadiums have the concessions everywhere. You're close. Now, that's one of the things that they do. They don't want you walking around. They want you not to get up and say,"Ah, it's too far. I'm not going to go by a hot dog." They want you to not have to think about it. And you get the hot dog, you know, as quickly as possible, say and get their money. And that also includes beer and wine and spirits that they're right there. And going to that game early on, it did feel like everything was in black and white. And the booze was in color. And the first tool I had was just picking up my phone and calling somebody. I called somebody right there. And the phone was heavy and the buttons were big and they didn't press down. But when I finally hit the enter button and the phone rang, I felt better. It was almost beyond the point that somebody picked up. And I was able to talk about it. And that was something that made me feel better. And this is where having a sober crew helps. Because other people have felt this too. They're not going to say, "You are weird. Why are you calling me about this?" They're going to say, "I'll thank God you called about this." I remember my experience doing that, too. You did the right thing. It's like a minute conversation I had and I could put the phone away and get back down to my seat. And I was good for the rest of the game. Everything, you know, the color contrast changed. That the booze came down in color. But everything else came up. And I was able to balance it out. And this is where there's a benefit in alcoholics and animus that you can meet other sober people. Who will pick up a phone in any situation and have done the same

Steve: 16:11

thing. The nice thing about having those tools is something you said. And I think many of us have experienced that. And there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of sayings in AA. And one of the sayings we hear all the time is, move a muscle change a thought. And that is, if you're sitting there dwelling on anything really, anything that's troubling you. But alcohol related, especially, is to get up and physically do something. Guys used to say, gober, guys just say, go shave, go brush your teeth, like literally get up and do something. And that's the same thing about picking up that phone and dialing that number. That by the time you get through, when you hear that phone ring, you've already changed your thought pattern.

Matt: 16:56

Yep.

Steve: 16:57

So regardless of if anybody picks up, you've already interrupted that, that whatever that loop was going on. And many times, it doesn't require somebody picking up, it only requires you to take that action. And if you're not familiar with that, you should try. If you're out there listening to this, and you struggle on occasion, again, this is not only about struggling to pick up a drink. This is struggling about lots of things in life, about having that crew who understands you, who knows you, pick up the phone, give it a ring and give it a try. You will feel better. And if the person picking up the phone doesn't make you feel better, then, then take that person off your list, right?

Matt: 17:40

Yeah,

Steve: 17:41

like we're not obligated to call certain people if they keep making us feel like shit. You know, so, so, you know, think about that and get that crew, but I have done that many times. where once I'm feeling something, if I'm frustrated, if I'm pissed off, I'll make a phone call or if nobody doesn't pick up, typically I will keep dialing. If I'm really upset with something, I will keep dialing till somebody picks up. But I'm already feeling better just by dialing. And it's such a, you know, it's such an easy thing to do. But like you said, at times becomes becomes a little bit of a struggle. You know, and I get it. I don't use the phone as whatches I should.

Matt: 18:27

No, I mean either.

Steve: 18:28

But I do on occasion. And I have people who call me and I'm grateful for that. Right. I pick up. But like I know when these people, they use the phone all the time. And they call me. I'm part of their rotation to give a call once we're out. Check in. And they're doing that for their benefit more than mine, which is great. But I always pick up if I can for those people. And it's just one of those tools. So you have to have those tools. And that's a tool bought. That's something you can get early on, right. And I did have that tool. I can remember really early sobriety. I would have to go to like a wedding or something. And I always used it. At the time I was like, my sponsor would know I was going to the wedding. I maybe would call him on my way to the wedding. And then I would somewhere during the wedding. Probably take a walk outside and give him a quick call. Like, hey, I'm feeling great. No problem. Just want to let you know I'm feeling good. You know, I'll talk to you tomorrow or never. It's such a great way to do it. Because again, we get this hyper focus that we're the center of the universe. Right. And that's one of our problems coming in for many of us that were the center of the universe. The other thing you touched on is about that sloppy, sloppy drunk. Okay. Now, you know, you've talked about your story like you weren't that sloppy drunk type of drinker. I wasn't your style.

Matt: 19:46

No.

Steve: 19:47

I was at times, right. Not all the time. Certai not in certain situations. I was able to control myself in certain situations in order to keep this. You know, I had this vision of myself that I wanted to portray to certain people, mostly family and stuff like that. But with some of my friends, like my high school buddies, I talked about,"Oh yeah. There was no like I was a sloppy, sloppy drunk." Like, really, really, you know, sloppy drunk. And so there's a lot of things that, you know, I felt, and I felt horrible about that. I felt horrible about my behavior. So, again, this, the other thing is, is right, I'm just talking to it. It's like, there's a lot of shame in that. Right. I felt like, oh my god, well, you know, how embarrassing is that? And that's the other thing, right? We feel embarrassed. So,

Matt: 20:39

we

Steve: 20:40

start to think that the whole world is, you know, coming in, looking at us, and it's just not true. It's not true. Most people don't know, most people don't care, and most people have their own lives, and most people have their own problems. Right. We all have our own problems. This is the other thing that's going on, like everybody has their own problems that they're dealing with. So, they're sitting there worried about their own shit anyway. They're not worried about you. They're not much, much less so than we think.

Matt: 21:06

So, you have the benefit of being not only an extrovert, but neurotypical, which is you're normal. You know how to deal with social situations normally. And I listen, I'm like, extroversion, how easy that would be. I actually learned something that is also something that can help you in the social situation if you're new in recovery. I have a senior vice president at work who is pretty. He's talked about being introverted and he's a really smart guy. Good leader. But I see the discomfort sometimes. And we have one of these ask me anything questions where you know you meet with the senior vice president and I asked them, you know, hey, you've talked about being an introvert. It's important especially in this virtual environment to make those connections with other people. But also you know out and about, you have to do that too. And you have mentioned, he mentioned, you kind of struggles with that. So you've mentioned, you struggled a little bit with it. Tell me what I guess give me some advice there. And in hearing him talk, I'm like, I think this guy is a little neurodivergent like me. He might be on the spectrum a little bit. And he said he goes, yeah, it is really tough. You know, when I go to a kid soccer, my kid soccer game, here's what I do. I write out things that I can say to other people. I actually create a written plan so that I know what to say to other parents and I can go up and talk to them. So if you have a situation like that actually write out your plan, which in hindsight is like, tha a very much neurodivergent thing that you are creating a plan to seem normal. But I will tell you, I was going to a soccer event and it worked for me. I don't think I wrote it out, but I'm like, I'm going to talk to three people and I'm going to engage them this way and get them to talk. You can use that when it comes to early recovery. If you're going to be in a social situation, a wedding, new year's party, family gathering, write out a plan of what you're going to do so you don't just stand in the and be awkward. All right, I'm going to go over and talk to so and so if they're there and I'm going to ask them about this. That is something you can, it may sound like really remedial, but a lot of this stuff is, yes, if it feels remedial, it is when you are getting sober. You are having to learn, everybody has graduated high school and you're going into kindergarten as an adult. You need to about it that way. You're not going to stay in kindergarten very long, but you have to develop those skills you didn't in kindergarten and create a plan. That is something practical you could do and because you have written down, if you do this, if you've written down a plan, you don't feel like you're walking in cold, even if you don't use it. You have done what you said earlier in the show, Steve, is you took an action. I'm going somewhere. I'm going to be uncomfortable. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to write it out. Now, I don't feel so uncomfortable because I've done something.

Steve: 24:38

You know, that's just good planning. I've done, I've it was a little bit more service work and sometimes I'll take on a commitment where I have to speak before the meeting

Matt: 24:50

Yes,

Steve: 24:50

and I always take time and write something out, always like, you know, it's supposed to be like a three minute thing. I always sit down and I'll write something, and many times I'll read it and say like, how close am I to three minutes. Now, I don't get up there and read from that script, although I may have it at my hand, but the fact that I've written it down, the fact that I've read it through, the fact that I've sort of done it in my own head just makes it more comfortable. Like, I have this plan, right? And I think the paper has given me a little bit of just security that if I lose my train of thought or something, I could look down and gaze at And there's no question that this co-worker boss is neural divergent, right? If they're writing down a plan to go to a kid's soccer game, like if it's that bad, yeah, there's something going on, but it's not a bad way to do some stuff if you're uncomfortable. It's not a bad way to, if you're going to a certain situation, like what are the topics that I want to talk about versus what are the topics that I don't want to talk about, right? And it's nice just to have that outline to say, nope, here's what I want to talk about. Here's how I could get a conversation going, or here's a conversation that I don't want to have and

Matt: 26:11

him.

Steve: 26:11

sort of have some ways to walk away from the conversation like that. Okay, and we're talking about stuff that I guess that, you know, We're talking about alcoholics like you and I who really struggled with alcoholism who really had an issue, right? I can understand their people out there like, "Oh, I don't have that problem. I drink too much. I don't have a lot of those problems" and that's great. I mean, that's great. If you don't have those issues, that's great. But I think there's always parts of us, regardless of where you came into this program, that you can use some of these skills on. I needed to use them on a lot of places myself. When I came into AA, I needed to rebuild my perception of what it was to be an adult, what it was to be a father, what it was to be a husband, I needed to rebuild that because the idea that I had of what that look like was skewed because of my alcoholism. So I needed to use all of these tools. For me, they're invaluable. They're invaluable. I had some family leave to go back home today, after the holidays, in the telemetry, I got to jump on the podcast and they were asking me about it. They said, "Do you like doing it?" I'm like, "Yeah, I do like doing it because it gives me an opportunity to talk about stuff that I don't typically talk about. Right? That's what we do and I do. We come on here and we'll bring up this topic. Then I have a chance to dig into it, think about how it impacts me, and then try to figure it out on the go." Because we're not brainstorming these, we were sitting down and

Matt: 27:52

"Oh,

Steve: 27:52

doing, I start to think about, how did I feel in this situation?" And I remember clearly, clearly, early sobriety, where I wasn't drinking and a lot of people were and how uncomfortable I was. And I'm sure, listen, next week when this drops, it'll be right the day before New Year's Eve, right?

Matt: 28:16

Yes.

Steve: 28:16

It'll be the 30th. And it's a nightmare, right? That's a nightmare. This is the point. If I'm drinking now, I'm drinking right through this weekend, right to New Year's. I am drinking right through as many people out there are today. And it's not going to be fun. It's not going to be fun. You know,

Matt: 28:40

I have the flexibility to have taken time off from Christmas Eve to the afterniers, just because of the way it falls.

Steve: 28:49

Right. Right. That's what I mean. Yeah.

Matt: 28:50

And because of the type of work I do, where it's a lot of facilitating for other people in the business, there's also a lot of other people who either are not in the business at this time, or they're doing stuff like call center work, where there are less people around, where it's going to be hard to gather people to do any type of facilitation.Either way, this is the time because it's either super busy on one side or not, it's a dead period. It makes sense. It's like, for me, it's like, I take the time off where it's not busy in the business because it's easy to do.

Steve: 29:26

Right.

Matt: 29:27

My point being because Christmas and New Year's happened on a Thursday, you very easily just start on Christmas and be

Steve: 29:38

can

Matt: 29:38

drunk for a week.

Steve: 29:39

Yeah. Easily

Matt: 29:42

because you can take that time off and say, well, I'm on vacation. It's the holidays. Of course I'm drinking. It's not alcoholism. It's the holidays.

Steve: 29:51

Of course?

Matt: 29:52

No, it's not.

Steve: 29:53

Even if you're working. Of course, I'm coming in a little hungover. It's the holidays.

Matt: 29:57

Yes.

Steve: 29:57

You know, yeah.

Matt: 29:59

It's to work on Saturday hungover

Steve: 30:01

Right.

Matt: 30:01

and I never complain because I thought I did this to myself. This is my punishment.

Steve: 30:06

So no, I agree. It's like it's it's in to me. Listen to me to me. It's so it's such a such a gift to me, not to have to do that or think about that. And be able to listen, we just had a really nice visit. Like I said, we had a busy household, which is busy for me, makes puts a lot of puts a lot on my plate. To host, I just hosted the last two holidays and it's a lot of my plate, but the joy of being able to do that with my family, with my grandkids, just you know, it's it's worth every bit of it. And, you know, none of that. First of all, none of that is available if I'm drinking. So it's just, it's just so such a beautiful thing to be sober and to be released from that alcoholic grip, that obsession, right. That obsession to man, I can't wait to everybody goes. So I can stop, start drinking or trying to sneak a drink, whatever it might be, to be free from that kind of stuff. So if you're out there listening to this and you're early on and you're thinking about it, man, it's a beautiful life.

Matt: 31:22

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 31:22

And I just noticed because I've had people come up, I mean, this is a busy, this is also a busy time of year for new people to walk into AA, right? You start seeing people walking in from the holidays who have been trying to negotiate through the holidays. And it's difficult. And I see it. I've seen a bunch of them come in and I've talked to some of them and they just, they have a hard time getting sober this time of year. Like they, they mean well, but next thing you know, you don't see him, you don't see him again.

Matt: 31:49

Yeah. Yep.

Steve: 31:49

It's, it's not easy. But it's worth it. It's worth it. And once you start putting the focus on yourself and don't worry about what other people are thinking start putting the focus on yourself, your own recovery, you know, what, what are the positive things you can do. Then you have a chance, you have a chance, which is all we get. We get a chance to get sober and live a useful life. But, you know, that's what we get. We get a chance and there's a lot of work to do on it.

Matt: 32:21

I'll end with this with some hope. For those of you who go into a wedding or a party or a social gathering where you feel like the spotlight is on you and you are weak, when you get these skills and you get some time sober, here's how you feel. You feel like you actually have a superpower. You have a shell around you, a walnut shell, and that you're free from what all these other people are doing that, oh my God, I feel the opposite. I can walk in here. And thank God. I don't have to worry about the open more. Thank God. I don't have to worry about being an asshole. Maybe you're an asshole. But it's not because of the alcohol,

Steve: 32:57

Right.

Matt: 32:57

your asshole for different, that you're free from those decisions. That's how I feel. I am free from the decision of alcohol. I have freed my mind up for something else. It's not perfect for me, but it is at least that I don't have to deal with. All right. I changed the website. Finally, did all that stuff. SoberFriendsPod.com brings you to the sober friends dispatch, which I think is a much better way to have a presence on the web where I am writing about sober topics. I'm thinking about this as I, as I'm going, I might be interested in people, if, if you want to write your sober story, take your name out or not, but if you want to write something, maybe we have guest spots there that that would benefit people that you can go there and you can write about your story, makes it especially easy if you already have a sub stack account, but you can still reach Matt at sober friends pod sober friends pod is a much better website and Steve. Thank you. Happy new year. Merry Christmas. Happy new year to you, Steve.

Steve: 34:09

Yep. Thanks, Matt.

Matt: 34:12

See you next time.