E262: Do You Miss Drinking or Do You Miss the Relief?

"I love to do things that will give me temporary comfort, that will make me very uncomfortable somewhere down the road."

A woman with 30+ years of sobriety shared this in Steve's Wednesday meeting, and it hit hard. Because that's exactly what drinking was - temporary relief that created long-term pain. But here's the real question: when you quit drinking, what are you actually missing?

In this episode, Matt and Steve dig into what happens when you remove alcohol but don't replace it with anything. Matt shares his painful 10-month white-knuckle attempt at sobriety back in 2001 - going to parties, feeling like hell, not drinking but not actually changing anything. It led exactly where you'd expect: relapse.

They explore the ritual of drinking - not just the buzz, but the physical act of holding a drink in a social setting, being part of the club, that first moment of "ahh, I got my drink" before things went sideways. And why ordering a tonic water with lime to "look like you're drinking" feels so uncomfortable and wrong.

Steve opens up about the difference between his first attempt at sobriety (physically beaten down) and his second (morally, spiritually, emotionally spent). How he realized he couldn't just replace alcohol with running 10 miles or hitting the gym seven days a week. He needed something internal to change - which is where the 12 steps came in.

We talk about:

• Why white-knuckling doesn't work (and what actually does)
• The ritual you lose when you stop drinking - and what replaces it
• Steps 4 & 5 as the real game-changers (not just Steps 1-3)
• Transferable addictions: when is the gym healthy and when does it become destructive?
• That uncomfortable feeling of being the only one not drinking (and when it finally goes away)
• The difference between missing alcohol and missing the escape it provided

Plus: Why Steve now happily orders his wife a glass of wine without needing to order himself anything, Matt's take on why mocktails feel like "perverted versions of alcohol," and the relief that comes from replacing the bar ritual with the breakfast ritual.

If you've ever tried to quit drinking on your own and couldn't make it stick, or if you're wondering what the hell you're supposed to DO when you're not drinking anymore, this episode is for you.

Transcript

Steve: 0:02

And she says, I love to do things that will give me temporary comfort, that will make me very uncomfortable somewhere down the road. You think about that statement. I want to do something that gives me that immediately comfort that I'm looking for. That's what drink you should do for us. But yet, I'll regret or will give me pain somewhere down the road. What is that? Is that cheating on your spouse? Is that doing, you know, spending more money than you should be spending? I start to think about what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Why am I taking this action?

Matt: 0:45

Welcome to The Sober Friends Podcast. I'm curious if you, if you're here, you're probably kind of recovery journey or you're a little bit curious about it. I hear a lot of people say that they miss alcohol. You know, this alcohol or do you miss that thing that alcohol gives you, that escape? Morning, Steve. Oh, what's up?

Steve: 1:10

Good morning, Matt. Uh, all good here, I think.

Matt: 1:15

Yeah.

Steve: 1:16

Waiting on this snow storm, but,

Matt: 1:18

um, yeah, it's going to be

Steve: 1:19

Yeah, I think, yeah, supposedly. I think that's a good topic is like,

Matt: 1:25

an um,

Steve: 1:25

what do we miss when we give up alcohol, right?

Matt: 1:27

yeah.

Steve: 1:28

I mean, what is it? Is it the alcohol? Is it the effect? Is it the, so yeah, I think there's some, some things to discuss around that. And, you know, this is perfect for these people who are, you know, again, trying to figure out. Do they want to stop drinking, but they need to stop drinking? What is it going to feel like when they stop drinking? And, and what's, what is that going to mean? Like, I mean, I think we all went through that.

Matt: 1:56

Mm hmm.

Steve: 1:57

Those of us who got sober and like, we went through that as part of our recovery, trying to figure all that out. So, I think it's a good topic to something to kick around a little bit this morning.

Matt: 2:08

I think this is also what causes relapse early on, especially without some type of program. That cold turkey dry drunk phase, white knuckleing it, I remember I've, I've, I had tried that in the past. It was really, I got nothing to replace it. I've removed something which is the alcohol, but I haven't changed something, we're put something in its place. And it led to its logical conclusion, which is a relapse.

Steve: 2:41

Yeah.

Matt: 2:42

That's, that's where I had the problem. I remember this back in 2001. I decided I was going to stop drinking. I wasn't going to say I had a problem, but I was going to stop drinking. And I lasted about 10 months. And I just remembered it was a white knuckle thing every single day, because life didn't change. I'd go to parties where there was alcohol around and it was, it was hell, but I didn't drink during that time. And I realized after the fact that I went through the 12 steps, it was, it really was the 12 steps that replaced it. Like the old, the old crusty old timers would say, I don't remember how they said it is like when you, when you go through step four and five, you're removing the files from your head, all that bad stuff. And you can't replace those files unless you get rid of some stuff first, which made a lot of sense. And it made me think back to the times I tried to stop drinking on my own. And I couldn't make it happen.

Steve: 3:46

Yeah. There's a lot us who come into this program. We've talked about it before, about the people and I, I'm guilty of some of the student extent is that we do look for things to replace it, right? You, you, you hear about that the, the newcomer comes in and they've talked about how good they feel, that they've gone to the gym seven days a week now, and they're doing this and doing that. So I think a lot of us when we come in, we do look to replace our alcohol activity with something else. The, the thing is it has to be sustainable, right? You need to find something that's going to be their day in and day out. And I think a lot of us, and me included like you can get caught up in some of those other activities. But a lot of times they burn out, they're like New Year's resolutions, right? They, you burn out from them, and you don't follow them through. So it is something. And again, I think if you're a new coming, you're trying to stop this is, this might be something that you didn't think about. What am I going to do? What am I going to replace this with? And that is where the 12 steps for us come into it. If you read our literature, it's going to tell you that you need to be placed with a spiritual awakening of some type. And that can mean a lot that doesn't have to mean you go stuck on the churches or the mosque or the synagogue or whatever you choose to do. It does mean that you got to find something inside of you that to change yourself. You know, I just, I remember when I came in, I remember I was, I was beaten down not physically the second time after my relapse, I drank for about 10 months. I wasn't beaten down as physically as I had been the first time, but morally, spiritually, emotionally, I just felt totally spent empty. Like there was nothing. And I realized that I had to do something to address that. I realized that at that point, like, I'm not going to be successful in in kicking this alcohol problem until I found something else to do inside of Not excellent. I thought I mean, not the exterior stuff of, you know, I was a big runner my whole life, like literally that's what I would do, like a start good and shape, and I'd go off running. And next thing, you know, I'd be running 8, 10 miles, right? Like I'd be doing that kind of stuff to extremes. Not bad. I had to find something internally to change the way I felt, to change the way I looked at life in order for me to start healing, and then start to figure out what is it about the alcohol, because there is something about alcohol, right? There's something. First of all, there's something about when you put it inside you, what it does, right? Those first few drinks make you feel calm, they know that you get that warm fuzzy feeling, which is all true. I get it. I remember those feelings. Those first couple of drinks go down, you're like, ooh, th is nice. And then for us, obviously, it went way past that. So physically, it does that stuff for you. There's also something about holding a drink in a social situation, right? I mean, everybody's doing around. It's the same thing like AA. We all go there with the same common problem. We all go there, or if you go to the gym, everybody thinks it's a gym to work out, right? So when you're at a social event or at a bar, or whatever it might be, and everybody is standing around holding your drink, you become part of a club.

Matt: 7:16

Yes.

Steve: 7:16

So there's a physical emotional attachment to just actually holding the drink, never mind drinking the drink. That feels like, I like doing this, like being part of the social setting, usually, again, usually a lot of times it starts off with you laughing, meeting up with friends, and doing those type of things. Even if you're an alcoholic, right? I mean, when you first walk in at that first drink, you start to relax. Oh, I got my drink. So there is something to be said for the physical part of just having a drink in front of you holding it in the social setting too, regardless of the alcohol intake and what that does for you also.

Matt: 8:01

That sounds like

Steve: 8:05

the ritual.

Matt: 8:05

There's a ritual at a social event around having the drink. If you've decided to stop drinking, you are breaking the ritual. That first time I decided to stop drinking, it felt like I was the one outside of the ritual. Everybody else was in it, and it wasn't fair. It was unfair that everybody else was drinking, and I wasn't, or I couldn't, and my thought was everybody else should tailor their behavior to me, not the other way around, which was unrealistic. I never really thought through that whole social thing, that having a drink in your hand, being an actual thing in that moment, I just had something in my head. I had a feeling in my head I couldn't articulate it.

Steve: 9:01

I think that's what separates the AA program from other programs. We talk about it all the time, just other programs. You can go out now, we talk about social media, I follow a bunch of people who literally work with alcoholics, therapists and stuff like that, one-on-one to help them stop their That's all good. I'm not saying that's anything wrong with that. That's good, if that's what works for you. The nice thing about what you just said, that ritual, is that and that you have to replace that ritual, something else. AA immediately gives you something to replace that with. You immediately give you the place to go where everybody's doing that same thing, and you have your coffee, if anybody's been to an AA meeting in your shop early and you get to talk and you walk in, we're all laughing, we're all talking, we're talking about our week, we're talking about whatever we're talking about. you then have that ritual. And that's the other reason why when I, after many years of sobriety, decide, I don't feel like going to a meeting tonight. I don't want to go to my Monday night meeting. I don't want to go to my Friday night meeting. I don't want to go here there. That's why most of the times, almost all the times, I still go, even when I don't want to go. I always say, I don't take off nights just because I don't want to go. I never say, I don't want to go to this meeting. I'm gonna stay home. I always push myself through that feeling and I go and I always feel better because I step into that ritual. I step into that group and it makes me comfortable just like when I used to show up at the bar or show up at home and I knew that bottle or that first drink was waiting for me, right? I knew it was waiting for me. I knew it was my comfort and AA gives me that feeling. It gives me that something to be placed with. And that's why I love going to meetings. That's why I love hanging out with my AA friends. And it's just, know, I get a similar feeling when I walk away. We hear about it all the time. For some reason recently, I've been getting a lot of just dull headaches. And I

Matt: 11:08

you

Steve: 11:09

know it's because I'm not eating as well as I need to be eating. A lot of times I go out to the day. My wife will say, have you eaten anything today? And I'm like, no, not really, you know, just a little pickin' here and there. And I get headaches later in the day. I always go to meeting like, oh man, I don't feel good. I don't feel like going. But when I go, when I get amongst those people, when I go to that ritual that I've replaced my drinking ritual with, I feel so much better.

Matt: 11:36

Yeah.

Steve: 11:36

It's like that, it's like that first drink comfort to me. Like, oh, now I know why I come to this meeting. So, again, that's why I do the AA thing because it gives me that replacement that I need and it gives me that safety that I need. And then to be around people that are doing the same thing I'm doing.

Matt: 11:57

See, do you got to take care of yourself?

Steve: 11:59

Yeah.

Matt: 12:00

Knock that off with not eating or pecking, being inconsistent.

Steve: 12:07

Yeah, I'm consistent. I'm just consistently not eating. No, I do have to do that and I get that. Um, but that's

Matt: 12:19

the eating

Steve: 12:19

one of those that's one of those rabbit hole and tangents that, what was it, bill,

Matt: 12:24

bill, bill like,

Steve: 12:25

told us not to go down.

Matt: 12:27

No, bill said do go down, it's okay. He likes the rabbit.

Steve: 12:30

Oh, he likes the rabbit hole.

Matt: 12:32

Yeah. So I'm indulging. I'm indulging bill from sober, not mature. Amphysis, I'm not mature with those guys.

Steve: 12:43

So, yeah, so that's what that feels like to me. That's what the AA group, that's what the AA meetings feel like to me. Um, and you know, it's just for me, it's a blessing, right? For me, it's a blessing. I had to, we got some, you know, we got some new furniture coming in. I had some furniture. I needed to move out of that room and, yeah, I called up one of the younger AA guys. I should have called two of them, just, but, you know, and we moved it out. Uh, it's just, yea, for me, it's just that nice thing. And then, you know, like, Hey, let me treat you to breakfast afterwards. Took, took

Matt: 13:16

oh,

Steve: 13:16

us all of about, took us all of about 20 minutes to do up, some couple of big pieces. I'm like, Hey, let's go out to breakfast. So again, it was just nice thing to do, right? The two of us, my wife didn't even bother coming along with us. Um, she was welcome. We invited her and, uh, so we did it. And it's just, again, it's that ritual of me replacing, right? Back in the day, back in the day as my buddy Frank used to say, back in the day, um, that would have always circled around drinking. It would have been like, come on over in the afternoon. We'll have a couple of bears. We moved this furniture and then we'll have a couple more bears or whatever, you know, or, or we'll go out for bite to eat, which will be drinking like that's the way it always revolved around that stuff. And today, because I'm sober, because I have a program, because I work the program, because I stay in touch with the program, and the fellowship, I do things differently. And, uh, just makes, makes my life better.

Matt: 14:19

I would be happy to revolve my life around going out for breakfast. Breakfast might be my favorite meal to go out for, so I pick my interest there and like, oh, damn.

Steve: 14:30

Yea,

Matt: 14:30

I love, is small as a bagel with, uh, with an egg sandwich or as big

Steve: 14:35

right?

Matt: 14:35

as like a big breakfast burrito. I would that, that's the same feeling for me is going out for beer. And I'd rather do the breakfast now with a nice, nice cup of coffee.

Steve: 14:45

I agree.

Matt: 14:46

There's never good cup of coffees at breakfast places. They're

Steve: 14:49

not.

Matt: 14:50

But the

Steve: 14:50

no, look,

Matt: 14:50

food

Steve: 14:51

they

Matt: 14:51

usually,

Steve: 14:51

are calibre. they

Matt: 14:52

Oh,

Steve: 14:52

have to, they have to, they have to make it a pallet bowl to a whole wide range of people. Yeah, so you get a, you get a really blah cup of coffee at most restaurants.

Matt: 15:06

That's fine, I'll drink about 12 of 'em. I'll get my, uh, my money's worth out of them.

Steve: 15:11

Yeah, alright.

Matt: 15:11

I'm just thinking back to the time where I felt uncomfortable. I would have like a soda or tonic water or something.

Steve: 15:19

Yeah.

Matt: 15:20

And, and I remember there was a change where it wasn't the escape anymore in a social situation that it was okay for me to navigate. I really think it was the beginning of those 12 steps. The, and I can't speak for other ways to get sober, and I know a lot of stuff bleeds in, but I can tell you the thing that really worked for me, especially early on, was the idea that my life was unmanageable with alcohol in it. An unmanageable means a lot of different things for a lot of different people. That does not mean you're homeless. I think when Bill rode it, it did. But for now, you think through, if I can't control alcohol, there are a lot of other things in my life. I can't control. That's the definition of it's unmanageable and it's insane and that I needed some outside help to do it. That's where it goes into the higher power thing. I definitely got on my knees early on and prayed because I, I was going to do whatever you told me to do so I could get sober. I was going to do those things and the praying is not the same today. I'm definitely agnostic, but I was bought in, but I still think that higher power are, there's something outside of me that I need to support me and that's enough. And then we get into what I thought was the most important thing that steps four and five before anything else, those are the most important because they actually taught me why I was doing this to myself. I was getting to the root of all of those fears. And once I got through that, it became a lot easier and a social situation, hold a glass of alcohol and it was keeping a lot easier for me to not need to have that escape.

Steve: 17:21

Yeah, you said something like being uncomfortable when you first started holding that time. I could remember going out and being uncomfortable ordering just a tonic water, something to try to make it like, hey, can I get a tonic, tonic was a twist of lime, right, about a close so I could get to a drink without having a drink. And I remember trying to play that, that game, trying to be like, Oh, I'm in that situation. And I remember how uncomfortable it was for me. I do. I remember like, this doesn't feel right.

Matt: 17:50

Like,

Steve: 17:51

like, it's like I'm reaching, I'm bringing, I'm going up to that line, right. Give me the time without the gin. I was number big, but I would drink gin, like, give me the time without the gin. Give me, even give me the twist of lime in it.

Matt: 18:05

Yep.

Steve: 18:06

So I'm walking up to that line. I'm typically when I'm ordering that I am in a bar situation, usually there's an event going on. I'm not walking into a bar on the street. Uses is an event going on with people who are drinking. And I remember trying to do that to fit in, right, to sort of make in myself fit in, not that anybody else, like, but bake myself feel like I fit in. And today, I mean, we just had a big reunion last Saturday. We had a big cousin reunion. And like I said, everybody just, and I think I mentioned this last week, right? People got there and they marched right up to the bar. And I didn't feel the need to do anything like that. I didn't feel the need to have any show and tell you know, and I was able to go to the bar and order my wife a glass of wine and not have to order myself and literally go back to the table and you know, with my wife who's sitting there and there was a bunch of, you know, not everybody with that bar. A lot of my cousins really don't drink or don't drink much. And so we were all just sitting around talking. So but I do remember feeling that very uncomfortable feeling of being in that situation. And you're right. And until I, and until I did work until I did some real steps and figured out really what was going on, it took me a while to move away from that uncomfortable feeling. And like I said, that's gone today. I don't even think about it. Like I don't, I haven't even thought about going up and ordering once in a great while. I'm not a big soda drinker. So it's like, I go up and it's like, yeah, what do you got for soda? And it's always the same stuff, idea.

Matt: 19:47

you know, no

Steve: 19:47

It's like, yeah, I just don't. I'm just not a soda drinker. And so I'm much more comfortable going to the table where we're going to have a bite to eat or something and, and have in my water. I'm a water drinker. So, yeah, no, just keep my water glass filled and I'm good.

Matt: 20:03

I'm good, I'm good with water outside of the social situation and then it just feels like it's not enough. What is nice for me with a co-zero is it's a different flavor than something adult. That's the thing that bothered me is the adult tasting drink feels like it's getting up to the line, but it's distorted. It makes it even more clear to me that I'm not drinking alcohol when I drink something that feels adult. This works for other people, but the mocktail type thing doesn't work for me because it feels just like a perverted version of alcohol in my mind and it just doesn't feel right. That's just me, but that's how I feel. If I was going to replace it, it had to be something entirely different. I had to go a totally different route. With me definitely the release ended up being a lot of different things, food which is the biology thing which is when you're using a GLP1 drug the fact that some of that noise goes away. So I definitely see it with alcohol that you actually have a biological thing. If definitely you also have a food issue when it comes to alcohol, it is a sign that you have a biological thing in your head and you're fighting biology, which is why I've come to be okay with the transferable addictions, transferable, healthy addictions. I'll give you an example, getting into gardening or getting into fitness or wanting to read to learn a topic. I think through if you transferring it to something else, how much time is it taking up, does that become destructive? Are you going to the gym for eight hours? And now you can't do other activities because you're working out all the time or I'm in the garden, but I'm spending enormous amounts of money on things for the garden. Does that then become destructive? Or is it like, no, I'm just a parameters here. I think that's the key. So I've become okay with the transferable addiction with the guard rails around it.

Steve: 22:33

Yeah, absolutely. That's absolutely. If you can go to the gym in a way that's reasonable, just like I said, anything, right, me and we talk, I like to hike. And I certainly have gotten to certain points where and usually for me, if I'm going to do my hiking, I like to set goals. I want to like, I'll sort of go, I want to hike this mountain, or I want to do this type of hiking and then I work to get in shape to do that kind of hiking. And sometimes that requires me to do a lot more hiking. But I can get, I can get a bit crazy with that. I was just telling somebody this the other day like, I don't buy a lot of hiking stuff. But for instance, I bought a brand new pair of snowshoes because last before my wife had her medical thing where she fell in broker-lake, last winter I hiked Mount Greylock in February, I sold it in the winter, it was winter, it was thing, and I had snowshoes with me. I didn't use my, I borrowed my sons snowshoes which are for hiking snowshoes. They're not, you know, like just going out and playing snowshoes. So I finally went out and bought myself a pair. And they're not cheap snowshoes. These are specific for hiking and hiking in mountains and stuff like that. They're not cheap. And I was able to do it because of different things. Some credit card points and stuff like they were on sales. So I was able to get a good deal. But even a good deal, they were, they were several hundred dollars. And I think to myself, you know, am I going to use these, I mean, I'm not going to use these because right now I'm not hiking under winter because it's still my, we don't deal with my wife. But, but I want to be able to do it, right. I want to be able to have that out, right. And I want to be able to have something to look forward to. So I did. So I went out bottom to hanging in my garage. We're supposed to get the nice thing is we're supposed to get a foot of snow up here in Connecticut today. And I do. I back up to a bunch of woods and I won't be out there mountain climbing with them. But I could be out there playing with them breaking men see how they feel, right. And that's my plan. Like tomorrow, Tuesday, get through on my snowshoes and then go out in the woods and see how they feel and get used to using them. So I, I do like to replace some of that stuff myself with that healthy, that

Matt: 25:04

with

Steve: 25:04

healthy replacement.

Matt: 25:05

Yes.

Steve: 25:06

But I mean, I am an addict and alcoholic and I like to overdo everything. And again, that's me, but I like to overdo everything. I have a, there's a woman who goes to my Wednesday noon meeting and she says something all the time that really has started to resonate. She's like, I love to, she and she's got like over three decades of sobriety.

Matt: 25:32

Oh, wow.

Steve: 25:34

And she says, I love to do things that will give me temporary comfort. That will make me very uncomfortable, somewhere down the road, right? You think about that statement, right? I wanna do something that gives me that immediately comfort that I'm looking for. right that, that she says she's always gotta guard against herself. You know, what am I thinking? What am I doing? Am I trying to do this for temporary comfort? And it's something I'm gonna regret down the line? And that is something that has started to resonate with me, and I start to think about what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Why

Matt: 26:40

Yep.

Steve: 26:40

am I taking this action? And again, I always have to, like, this is what I talk about, like, I'll always be an alcoholic. I'll always have to work on myself. I guess I will until I won't, uhm, because I just, those things, just, they're always there for me. They're always there, like, I'm still looking for things that make me feel good. And that includes, like, I love hiking. I love when I hike. Like, I love getting to a top of a mountain. I don't always love the journey up the mountain, but I love when I get up there. And it makes me feel like, oh, I can't wait to do this again. And I can substitute that for a lot of things. A lot of, and I can substitute bad behaviors, you know, for that also. So for me, you know, that's why, that's why I work the program I do.

Matt: 27:29

Yep.

Steve: 27:29

I work the program. That's why I do the service work. That's why I, so much of what I do is me touching, interacting with other alcoholics who are working the AA program, right? Cause that's what I work. It's really important for me to stay in touch with those people. So I could keep checking myself. keep checking myself. When I hear this woman share that, you know, that's how I learn. I go, oh, I need to check myself for that behavior. Right? That's

Matt: 27:59

I could

Steve: 27:59

the beauty of our program, because she shares it. And then I go, oh, can I use that information? And I have a choice if I want to take that information and use it. Or if I just want to discard it and not, you know, ignore it.

Matt: 28:12

That's some deep stuff you have to really get into some good place of recovery to get to a place of let me think this through what the tempera relief is going to be. I know the tempera relief will work. What are the ripples down the line? Because you're not thinking about that in an active addiction, you can't think past that. You're in such a place of pain, whether you know it or not, you can only think through, I need to get rid of this pain now. And then you don't think about how that causes problems down the line. If you are in that place, really, wait a second, I'm thinking this through.What is this going to cause me later? What is it going to, what's the cost going to be? What's the place of pretty good recovery? Because it's not if you think, gosh, I'm failing at this because I'm still thinking about the relief aspect. You're not you're successful of like I'm still feel like I want this recover this, this relief. But if I do this, what's going to happen? That's a good place and that's really enough. Alright, this is where I want to hear from you. Soberfriendspod.com where you can read, try to do every week. Sometimes it's every other week an article about recovery. Not at sober friends pot or on the socials. At sober friends pod.

Music: 29:41

Don't

Matt: 29:44

get crushed by the snow today. It's okay, snowmbe getting.

Music: 29:55

I

Steve: 29:57

got my bicks and a little blow out. I'm already fine. Watch some tomorrow and we'll clean it

Matt: 30:09

up.

Steve: 30:11

That's right.

Matt: 30:12

Alright, I'll talk to you later. Bye everybody.

Frank Rizzo and His Band: 30:15

i wanna fight ya. u don't have the courage, u're a real crumb bum. you're a crumb creep coward. i wanna fight ya. but you don't have the courage, u're a real crumb bum. put that on camera, you're a creep, get away from me, get away from me. i was a cop in all my life and i know a lush when i see one. i wanna fight ya. i wanna fight ya. i wanna fight ya. yeah. i'll break it over your head, get away from me, you crumb. there is a where i'm a crumb creep coward.