E267: It Fixed What Was Wrong With Me

That's the part nobody wants to say out loud. Alcohol wasn't just a bad habit — for a lot of us, it was a solution. It fixed the social anxiety. It fixed the noise. It fixed the feeling of not fitting in. The problem wasn't that it didn't work. The problem was everything it cost.

Matt shares a moment from a recent trip to Boston — walking past the warm lights of a hotel bar, depleted and exhausted, and feeling the whisper. He wasn't in danger. But he heard it. And that's exactly what this episode is about.

He and Steve dig into the lies alcohol tells — not the obvious ones, but the sophisticated ones. The lies that knew exactly where you were weak and aimed right at it. The promise of ease, belonging, confidence, and feeling like an adult in the room. And why those lies were so hard to walk away from when, for a while at least, they actually seemed to work.

Honest, personal, and a little uncomfortable. Just two sober friends telling the truth.

Transcript

Matt: 0:01

We should go back to 1995, who was like such a great time. When I was in college in the mid-90s, and then I think about, I lived in a dump of an apartment with mice, and I had no money, and I had no car, and they were their own problems. But you only remember what was great about that, and you think about with the knowledge you have today. So yeah, there were good times, and I can remember. But I am forgetting what happened an hour or two after that good time, where I got into a jackpot of some time, some part. That, I'm forgetting. So the lie can be not just necessarily a lie, but the omission of something. It's dishonesty by omission, because you forget the other things. You only remember the good nostalgia. Welcome to The Sober Friends podcast. My name is Matt J, and over there is Steve. What we talk about are how the lies alcohol tells us. Talk about recovery, getting better, what was like when we were out there, but this alcohol is such a liar. And I'll tell you, I wasn't in danger this week, and Steve, but I could feel the lies from alcohol. My son had a volatile tournament in Boston. My whole family was down for this one. That's another story altogether of me not liking having to curtail how I handle tournaments to make up for my wife and the girls who run at a different pace than me. But we're in the south end of South, not the south end, but the seaport area, where there was nothing a few years ago, and now there are hotels and office buildings and all this stuff. They're just popping up. And it was like going by the convention center, hotel upon hotel, nice hotels, all with these bars and stuff, which were like nice bars, like cigar bars, and it looks like everybody was having a gleeful time. And I looked in, and the thought was, wouldn't it be nice to be able to go in there and being able to have a drink? And realizing instantly, I'm like, what a lie. Because I can't go in. So let's really break this down about what a quote, drink would be at the bar. For normal people, it's a great time on those hotel bars. It's like you can just go downstairs, and it's like a full bar. It's like, it's like you walk down your bedroom stairs, and there's a bar, and there's people there waiting for you. It's beautiful. And normal people go down there, and will talk to people, and they will soak in the atmosphere and that energy. And while they're doing that, they might have a drink or two. I'm never going to be able to experience drinking that way. First off, the noise makes me crazy, because I can't filter out the background and the foreground. So everything is noise. And it's tough sometimes to talk to strangers. And to do that, I would need alcohol to get a little bit of courage, which in the end, it's really just a different environment to drink. Because I'm not going to go down there and be relaxing, sophisticated. It's going to end up with me drinking until I'm drunk, if I do that. Or if I stop, it's going to be painful. What was the point of doing that altogether? And yet, there's still that lie every time.

Steve: 4:04

Yeah. The thought that wouldn't it be nice to go in there and have a drink is not the lie, right? Because it would be nice to go in there and have a drink for most people. And I was at a meeting today, and somebody shared-- and this is the truth about alcohol. He's like, if I had a glass of vodka right now, he said, if I drank that down, he said, I would feel better for about two hours.

Matt: 4:40

I

Steve: 4:41

would feel good. I would feel relaxed. Maybe not now, because we have all this as they say, a head full of AA. But you get what he means. It would make me feel good. And that's the truth. And that's why people who can go and have those coupled drinks. The lie is when I try to convince myself that I'm a normal person and that I can do those type of things. And again, I don't have that conversation with myself anymore that I try to convince myself. So the thought is there. I'd never, never hide from the fact that I would love to be able to go in and have a drink. I mean it. I would love to. I'd love to go out with my wife sometime who's sit there and have a conversation while she has her glass of wine or I've told the story a while back where she had a glass of tequila with a big ice cube in it, which man I would have loved. Like I was so envious of her that she could drink that because that was my drink of choice. One of them. And I was like, oh, I wish I could drink that and I made that. I meant that. I like I wish I could drink that, but I, but I can't. So the lie becomes and the danger becomes when the, I can't starts to get blurred or whatever. That's the lie to me and that's the lie that my alcoholism tells me is that for some reason something's changed and something's different. Either I've just been given the key, I've been given that piece of him. Oh, that's the piece of information I needed in order to allow me to drink normally.

Matt: 6:27

Yeah.

Steve: 6:28

For this alcoholic, there is no piece of information that will allow me to drink normally. It just isn't available. You know, and again, I accept that today, but that doesn't mean on occasion, I don't still still feel that way. That I don't still see people drinking with at least what seems like it. Truthfully, everybody in that bar are not drinking without issues, right? Some of them have issues, some of them will have problems, but what seems to be,

Matt: 7:03

probably quite a few of them.

Steve: 7:05

Right. With, with, you know, what seems to be, I forget how they put it in the big book, but without without problems. You know, so I just can't start looking at myself like that. Because then when it comes to alcohol, I am not the same as other people. I am the same as other people in other ways, but when it comes to alcohol, I'm not. And today, I know that. And today, I understand that we were talking about other illnesses and other chronic disease that I am. I have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. Right. Chronic means everlasting. It means it'll always be there. So if I don't treat my chronic alcoholic mind, then my disease will come back. If I had diabetes, and I needed medication, or if I have high cholesterol, and I need medication, I don't get my cholesterol down to a reasonable level, and then say, Oh, I'm going to stop my medication though. So I can't do that with my alcoholism either.

Matt: 8:18

No. No, absolutely. That would be insane. I was thinking through how, how did this even come up thinking about this walking by in Boston, trying to think of when you are going to be hearing this? It won't be the previous weekend. It will be the weekend before that. The reason we didn't have a show last week was because I was in Boston. I didn't think enough to tape ahead of time. And I was tired. That Boston trip, it was cold. It was rainy as hell, and it was dank, and it was dark, I don't sleep right in hotels. There was the time change. I have been tapering off Ben LaFaxing, trying to figure out, do I need this medicine anymore? Do I need to go on something else? In either way, I've got to come off of this stuff and it's a lengthy process. And I my VIVance, my ADHD medication, which just leaves me in a fog. I can do it. I just, I noticed I'm fog here. So all of the, all of my resistance was down, and it was enough to notice the bars. And they looking back, they did have a little bit more color to them. And they normally would, they were warm and inviting and that part of Boston, there's tourists traps. There's places for locals, and there's some swanky places. But this is, it's just bullshit, it's bullshit, and you have to be on guard. And I also think there is something to be said of being okay with realizing of being in that place of, wow, it does seem fun. And I can't do it.

Steve: 10:31

Yeah, I remember, you know, when you're in a big city like that like Boston or if you go to New York, some of the bigger cities in your downtown, you're going to run into those situations, where there's lots of bars, right? There's lots of entertainment, lots of restaurants, and you're going to see lots of people who are participating that. And it brought me, as you were speaking, it brought me back two years ago, my wife, my wife and I, every five years, we like to do a decent trip, right? second marriage for both of us. So we were pretty we were older when we got married. So we're not going to see any big numbers in the hit oh, we're not going to hit the 50 year. We only been hit 40. So we try to do it. And years ago, I don't know, we might have been married 15 years. So we went down to the keys. My wife always wanted to she had never been to the keys. And I had been down there before. And we went to Key West. And I've been to Key West before when I was drinking, but I was okay. I was like, when I was first married when I first married, we honey moon down there for a few days. And I wasn't drinking alcoholically back then I was it was fine. And, bu, but I was able to walk by one of the, they have a lot of open air spaces down there. Right. You watch walk in like the bars are wide open to the streets and music is playing and all that kind of stuff. And I can remember walking into those plays. And I remember being down there was my wife. And we weren't staying in Key West. We were staying about an hour north of this in one of these smaller keys and I remember we were down there. We had dinner. We were walking around and just around nine o'clock, like thing. It was starting to get dark and the music was starting to go. And I wanted so much just to hang out down there and go sitting a bar and listen to the music because the music is really good down there, right. And just sitting a bar. And at that point, I mean, I was safe enough to do that right like I was sober enough and safe enough that that I could do that. But my wife's not a night person. And I just remember being so bummed that I can't do that type of stuff anymore. And I wouldn't do it unless I was in the right place. Like, I don't go. There's lots of times where I think, oh, I'd let the go see this musician. I'd love to go see this. But I don't do it. And maybe I should, if I could find some other people to go with, but I just don't do it enough, because I certainly don't want to do it alone. But I just remember being bummed that, you know, that that's no longer part of my life, right, that I can't go in there. Right. And again, I'm in Key West. It's the key look capital, the world, maybe I'm maybe not Mexico is but, but I'm down there, right, like that's where I could have gone and have all those drinks that I love and all that kind of stuff. And so, so I guess what I'm saying is like, there is there is part of me and I think for many alcoholics that missed those things, right. And I think that's why we walk by sometimes some of us, not all of us, we walk by open bars or open restaurants. And we think, oh, wouldn't it be nice. Wouldn't it mean because for me, again, there was a time where I could walk into those bars and have a reasonable drink. I wasn't always a sloppy alcoholic where I couldn't control it. There was time where I could go in and I didn't feel bad. And I didn't wake up the next day looking for my next drink. But at the end, I did. And as we love to say in the rooms, you know, once you're pickle, you can never become, go back to become a cucumber.

Matt: 14:06

Correct.

Steve: 14:07

Um, so I can never go back to being that normal drinker who doesn't look for that drink after I like that fire. It's just not possible.

Matt: 14:18

I was thinking about something today, as I was having a Coke zero earlier in the day, I have had to give up soda after certain point in the day, generally after about 2pm, but definitely not around dinner time. Because I'm finding that it's a catalyst for me getting a restless legs attack. So I have this whole protocol I go through now. I take half a gabapentin pill and then I take 2 gabapentin pills, but I take I take half at 6pm, then I take to at about 9pm. The whole idea is the first gabapentin kind of a building I'm building up a little bit, so that when the main dose kicks in, I've maintained a certain level and that's going to get me through the period of time between 11 and 12 when it really kicks up because I could be up for an hour. So there are things I can control and that's caffeine consumption and I I like to have a soda at night and I'm not happy about giving it up, but I can do it and I don't need a program for that. It's just like I can't do it anymore. So I'm, it's a pain in the ass, but it's not hard for me not to drink a soda. I'm not, you know, slamming my hand on the table. That's not the case with alcohol, something is very different as much as I like coax zero.

Steve: 15:58

Yeah, I mean, it's like that with a lot of things right. I mean, um, there's a lot of things I like to do that I could say, no, I don't want to do that because it's not healthy for me. Or like you said, oh, I'm realized that that has become a problem. Like what you just said, I realized that's become a problem for me. I need to adjust my behavior.

Matt: 16:20

Yep.

Steve: 16:21

Right.

Matt: 16:21

I mean. Huh.

Steve: 16:22

That's the way normal people and that's the way normal drinkers handle alcohol. Oh, I'm drinking too much. I need to I need to roll it back some right or you know lots of people who are just decided that alcohol just they're just not interested in any of it today. So there's a lot of just people who don't have a drinking problem who are deciding not to partake in alcohol.

Matt: 16:50

Yep.

Steve: 16:50

But that's the way normal people handle it. Again, I go over it and I know it sounds like a broken record. But if you're an alcoholic, you listen to this. You get it. Like you know, I'm not

Matt: 17:00

Yeah.

Steve: 17:00

saying anything. You don't understand. If you're new or if you're looking to it, I'll just do a quick shout out. I was talking, we have a cleaning lady comes over every couple weeks. She was here today. She knows him in the program. We talk about it. And I just mentioned to her something. I don't know how we got to talk about it. Oh, I do a podcast. So she goes, wh? Like, yeah, I do a podcast. She goes, I'm what I said recovery. She goes, I always wondered what that microphone was in your office, right? She cleans and cleans you off. And so she asked me about it. And I always tell people, listen to it if you want, but I don't hold much back. Right? Like

Matt: 17:34

Yep.

Steve: 17:34

I lay myself out there. She goes, well, why was you not talking about me? I'm like,

Matt: 17:41

I

Steve: 17:42

don't think I've ever mentioned you on this podcast. But But I don't know. Maybe we'll have a new listener. But my like, my point is she won't get it. Right? She's not an alcoholic. She, she won't understand what I'm talking about with my brain and how it works, because she's not an alcoholic, just like my wife doesn't right. My wife doesn't get it. I mean she accepts it. She and she watches it. She understands what I need to do. But she doesn't get the fact that how much I struggle with it. She doesn't understand why I can't do it. To her, it doesn't matter. She's just happy. I'm not drinking and that, you know, as I we talked about in my in our meeting today at noon that I've had a personality change for the better. Right? And that's that's the truth. I've had a personality change through working the 12 steps of alcoholics and anonymous. That's for the better. And so and that is the only thing that keeps me from walking in that bar, right? My only the only thing that keeps me there is is working my programs. Because if I don't work my program eventually I'll go to Yanky Stadium. Because this happened to me when I relapsed. I'll go to Yanky Stadium when nobody's around and I'll drink.

Matt: 18:59

Yep.

Steve: 18:59

Right. Yeah. I'll drink. Because that's what I did when I relapsed. That's what people do when they go to Yanky Stadium. That's what I always did when I went to Yanky Stadium. So no longer possible for me. Do I miss it? Of course I miss some of it. Do I miss it the the damage in the chaos brought into my life, not even a little bit, not even a little bit. So it's nice, not that, you know, but like I said, we you know, the thing you brought up was the lie that alcohol tell us right that lie that lie the hey and it's true. You know, some people talk about it in our program. You know, they use metaphors like hey, my disease is outside in the park on how to push ups like all those things and they're sort of funny and I don't believe in all of them. But I get what they're saying, what they're saying is that listen, my disease never goes away.

Matt: 19:59

And

Steve: 20:00

never goes away, you know, I'll never be cured. I might be recovered, but I'll never be cured. And I'll only stay recovered if I continue to to do something to address

Matt: 20:16

it. Eli Lilly, I heard is I'm a I am such a big believer in GLP one. We've talked about GLP ones way, way before most people were talking about them. And I heard that Eli Lilly is working on a phase two or phase three GLP one where they are tweaking it specifically to prevent alcohol abuse. It's not like that's a side effect. No, they're trying to develop something very specific to alcohol use. And even if that works and that's and I'm one of these people who praise does because I think that a drug like that that you could take that immediately takes that craving away

Steve: 21:06

right

Matt: 21:06

when you're at your worst right when you decide you're going to stop can get a lot of people in the door and keep them so over. And even if that works, it's not a cure because you're going to have to take that drug forever for you not to have that craving to come back. It's a lot like like in some ways. I think you can't with alcohol. I think you can you can learn those coping skills and if you stop taking the drug, you'll be like somebody who is in recovery who doesn't take them. but in some ways it's like methadone or some of those other drugs that. keep the heroin withdrawal from coming back. But it's like it's not a cure. It is a treat, it would be a treatment that gives you more help than what we have today, which also then goes to show that there is something going on in the brain or chemically in the body that causes this. But even with that, it's not a cure.

Steve: 22:12

No,

Matt: 22:13

you still have to treat it somehow however you're treating it. And that is kind of part of the lie. I'm thinking about every lie is really based on something real, based on a truth. For me, real social anxiety, it is aiming at my discomfort and no easy environments about feeling of not fitting in, about being really, really tired. And it always goes in and says, I'm the thing that can fix what's hard about you. And that's what got me into trouble. How was I going to quit drinking when that was the only thing that fixed what was wrong with

Steve: 23:00

me? Right, that's what I was going to say. It did fix what was wrong with me. Right. I said, I, we've said it before and I've said it, I'm sure I've said it on this podcast. I say it in meetings. Alcohol, how was my solution?

Matt: 23:15

It's

Steve: 23:16

what got me through my stuff. right. The problem with it. It had a lot of bad side like any drug. I

Matt: 23:23

Yes,

Steve: 23:23

mean it's honestly, I never, it had a lot of bad side effects. Right. It had really bad behavioral side effects for me. And it had physical side effects for me. I had emotional side effects for me. But the truth is, it, it solved my problem of not wanting to feel the feelings I was feeling.I mean it, it solved my problems. And that is, you know, that's the, that's the truth, right? And I love what you said, right? There's always, you know, it's you see a lot of it in disinformation stuff too. Out there they take us, you know, people will take a sliver of truth and then blow it up and make it disinformation. And that's a lot like alcohol, you know, my alcoholic brain. A little bit, you know, like I said, you know, you'll feel better. If you take this drink, you'll feel better. That's true. I'll feel better with that one drink, but it's, it's the, it's the drinks and craving and craziness that comes afterwards that I'm not going to feel better. I shared about this today and it's something that I've, I've got to, it's in the forefront of my mind because we're, you know, you know, I've been talking about the GLP ones and stuff like that. But there's a, there's a woman who goes to my noon meeting who said, she said it a couple times, but she said it more recently and she said, I still today, and this woman has 30 plus years of Friday, she says, I still today will do something that will give me short term pleasure and give me long term pain. And I thought, if that isn't a way my brain still works, I will choose short term pleasure. Even if I know it's going to make me uncomfortable or cause me discomfort in the long term and my brain still works that way. You know, we had a whole other show to do about a GLP one medicine that would let us drink normally. Like, what does that mean for the alcoholic, right? I mean, it's such a scary thing. Like, I don't know. You know, you're going to try it. I don't know. I don't think I would. I don't think I'm interested in, and rolling that dice,

Matt: 25:47

Nope.

Steve: 25:47

but Because my life is too good today. Right? That's,

Matt: 25:51

Yes.

Steve: 25:51

that's the hope on my life is too good today. And alcohol is no longer that important to me that I think that it's something that I want to do and I want to risk at all, ever. You know, the things that are important to me today.

Matt: 26:08

You don't drive me insane is Scott Galloway, who is on pivot and he has about 27 other podcasts that he's on. Talks often about younger people should drink more.

Steve: 26:23

Yeah.

Matt: 26:24

Because it's a loop, it's a lubricant and you meet people and now it's also the same guy who is constantly talking about how he's going to cut back his drinking. And it drives me insane that he is saying this because I don't think it's true. I mean, maybe some people can, but I don't know. This is bad advice to me. Young kids should drink more. It's good for them. Yeah.

Steve: 26:51

It's, we will, I won't go down that rabbit hole. Because it's more complicated, more complicated than that for him. Because what he talks about is demand loneliness. Uh,

Matt: 27:02

yes.

Steve: 27:03

epidemic that's going on and what he's what he's trying to say and that is that if you went out and drink and socialize more then you'd have a chance to meet more women and and again, that's that's one of the things alcohol does solve that that socialize like you talk about it your socialization fair fair right maybe your ability to talk to women maybe your ability to ask a woman out on the date like that is what that thing fixes um or helps with not fixes helps with some to some for some of us um so I understand what he's getting at I do I understand what he's getting at but it is a dangerous thing and he does talk about how he cuts down on his drinking he needs to cut down on the drinking and he also he does addibles and he talks about that he does a lot of stuff right so um he seems like a normal guy he can do what he wants good for him uh but I agree I don't think it's great advice to and I no longer think it's great. I no longer think it's good advice to encourage people about use alcohol alcohol because he's talking about using it at a level that that certainly is more than one drink or two drinks right he's talking about getting socially lubricated to a point where you're you're feeling really good so um but again people you know we're grown adults we get to make those decisions our lives and there was a time in my life where at least it felt that way for me that I could drink like a normal human being that I could go have a couple drinks that I could sit there and not be jones in for the next one not be looking for the next one never feel like okay that wasn't good there was a time I was able to do that and then there wasn't a time and that that time was gone so I don't know I'm okay with my life today I can't I can't stroll into a bar unless I'm with a lot of people and they're just going to have a drink and I'm going to have a coke I could do that I can do that for we're out with a lot of people but um I'm not doing that if I'm alone with my son on a trip with just a two of us and I'm um you know I'm not doing it in that situation

Matt: 29:16

mm-hmm

Steve: 29:16

not at all I have no interest in doing

Matt: 29:20

it the lie it also tells and this is with anything our mind only remembers the good stuff it prevents pain with with any nostalgia you you look back oh you know we should go back to 1995 it was like such a great time but when I was in college in the mid-90s and then I think about I lived in a dump of an apartment with mice and I had no money and I had no car and they were their own problems but you only remember what was great about that and you think about with the knowledge you have today so yeah they were good times and I can remember but I am forgetting what happened in an hour or two after that good time where I got into a jackpot of some time some part that I'm forgetting

Steve: 30:08

yeah

Matt: 30:08

so the lie can be uh not just necessarily a lie but the omission of something it's dishonesty by omission because you forget the other things you only remember the good nostalgia

Steve: 30:27

I don't think there's any question that that's true for a lot of us right

Matt: 30:30

mm-hmm

Steve: 30:30

um and and and the thing I'll say on that is that when I first came into the program people be talking about blacking out and I was like oh I wasn't a blackout drinker until I really started thinking about my drinking and then I realized oh yeah I was a blackout drinker so there was a lot of those things that I don't remember because I don't remember 'em 'cause I was blacked out

Matt: 30:51

yeah

Steve: 30:52

um and and today I today I can remember certain instances where I was blacked out like driving across waterberry from one end to waterberry to not without any idea how I got home right and then I went oh that was a blackout that um so how many other nights did I have blackouts for an hour or I didn't know what was going on

Matt: 31:14

night

Steve: 31:15

I didn't

Matt: 31:15

yeah

Steve: 31:15

remember what was going on I didn't remember what I said to people what I did to people you know who knows who knows

Matt: 31:23

or you remember it but you don't remember it the way other people do

Steve: 31:28

yeah

Matt: 31:28

your lens out look like you know like like like like a rocky dentist in the movie mask where he went into the fun house and he looked normal in the in the fun house mirror but he had all types you know his face was deformed so I looked normal looking out of my eyes at what was happening when everybody said you are trashed dude and out of control

Steve: 31:57

you know you just reminded me of something I'll finish with this tonight cuz we're running out of time when I when I was my first wife and I were married and my first wife was very artsy would make a lot of craft stuff and for time would make stuff and go sell them at different shows and somehow I don't know how I don't remember exactly how it happened but she ran into a girl that I dated for a while'And, uh, and she remembered me', that was good, ehm, but we didn't date that long. And she said, 'Um, I said, 'Oh yeah, what does she say about me?' She said, 'Um, she said that you partied a lot',

Matt: 32:38

'uh, ha, h, ha, so you remembered you well?' 'That's

Steve: 32:40

what, that's what she remembered me as.'

Matt: 32:42

'Yeah.'

Steve: 32:43

'The guy who partied a lot.' 'Now, if you asked me how she would have remembered me, it wouldn't have been that.' 'But that's how she saw me through her eyes.' 'Eh!' 'You know, so it is interesting how people see us through their eyes' 'And how we, how we see us through our eyes.' 'And I'll, I'll say this, I really will finish with this, I tell people all the time''When I talk about my bottoms, you don't want to ask me about my bottoms, what you want to do is go ask my wives, right'?'Both what?' 'But, no, I mean that, honestly, I mean that, honestly, not even at the joke, I mean that' 'They experience, because they also, they both experience the bottom with me''At different times, right?''And they experience that very differently than I experience''And if you really want to know what it was like in real terms, you should go talk to

Matt: 33:34

them' 'Lie was never about the drink, it was about the person you thought it would make you' 'All right everybody, if you, if you have some thoughts on that' 'Matt, it's soberfriendspod.com''Or on social media@soberfriendspod.' 'All right, Steve, we'll see you next week'

Steve: 33:54

Yep. Thanks

Matt: 33:56

Matt. Bye everybody.