E272: Why You Know What to Do… But Still Don’t Do It

Ever know exactly what you should do… and still can’t make yourself do it?

That’s what this episode is about.

This week, Matt and Steve talk about the kind of overwhelm that doesn’t show up as a crisis — it just builds quietly until everything feels heavy. The to-do list grows, your brain won’t shut off, and even simple things start to feel harder than they should.

They get into:

• Why there’s a gap between knowing and doing
• How “keep it simple” can help — or become a trap
• What it actually looks like to pull yourself back when you feel stuck

And why sometimes the smallest action — even when you don’t feel like it — is what breaks the cycle.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or like you’re not doing what you “should” be doing, this one will hit.

Transcript

Matt: 0:01

(upbeat music) Welcome to the Silver Friends Podcast. This is a show for the newcomer to show for the old timer. Anybody who's interested in sobriety staying sober, keeping sober. You know the life kind of like a meeting in your pocket. Over there is Steve. What's going on Steve?

Steve: 0:23

Good morning Matt. Samo Samo here.

Matt: 0:26

All right, Samo Samo is pretty good.

Steve: 0:29

Yeah.

Matt: 0:30

I want to talk about Keep It Simple. This popped up in my head because I have not been keeping it simple lately or my whole life. I'm thinking about all the things I want to get done. And yesterday as I was walking the dogs I was thinking I need to do a brain dump. Just right down, everything going on because I just don't feel like I can keep it straight. Now I'm gonna preface. I'm neurod 癒 divergent. Level one autism, ADHD and those two things just pull on me. And you can feel like I've done a bunch of things and I haven't done enough or I have hauled a bunch of these things and I get paralyzed. And this is one of those things that can cause a drink to sound like a great idea. But I'd love to see where this lands for you.

Steve: 1:23

It's been said and I think it's... We like to paint with a broad brush sometimes when we're talking about the disease of alcoholism. So, and you'll hear that a lot in meetings when I'm. We have a tendency, I have a tendency. And I think a lot of people I know in the program have a tendency to complicate a lot of stuff.

Matt: 1:49

And

Steve: 1:51

I think that's a little bit what we're talking about. How do we keep it simple? What does that mean, how do we apply that, all that kind of stuff? And I know that I do. I mean,

Matt: 2:03

I,

Steve: 2:05

I have a little bit of a Doomsday personnel.

Matt: 2:10

You

Steve: 2:11

know, little things set me off to a very bleak, dark future, which I know isn't true all the time. But I know it's not like, it's not all reality. But it doesn't change that from happening in my brain. And again, those are the type of things that made me drink. So today, I realized that I need to really work on that. Keep it simple, do some work. And then try to figure out how I apply that in my life, right. How I apply that keep it simple in my life so that I don't spiral. And so that I don't end up going, you know, to a place that whatever's bothering me, like it does most of the time, most of the time, it doesn't deserve that type of attention. It doesn't deserve that type of thought process, right. And that's what I, we're talking about, right. Like I am making it bigger than it is. And it's an ongoing problem. I've got some of that going on today. Like I just literally had a conversation with my wife this morning, and it sort of fits into this whole thing. And it's hard, it's hard. And then, you know, then the other thing we talk is like, just because I'm an alcoholic and I'm in recovery, and yet there's a lot of good stuff going on in my life, life still happens, man.

Matt: 3:30

Yes.

Steve: 3:30

Life happens, it continues, it doesn't go my way. It's not fair. All of those things that happens to everybody else in this world also. But it's just, it's just what it is. So I have to figure it out. And for this alcoholic, I need to figure out how do I make it simple? How do I keep focused? And then again, we'll get into it. But for me to keep it simple is what's the most important thing that I need to do right now?

Matt: 4:01

Oh, it's a good one.

Steve: 4:02

Right.

Matt: 4:02

Oh, I love, I love hearing that Steve.

Steve: 4:05

And, and, and a lot of times from, for me, that means going to meeting, right? If we talked about going to our friend, Tim's house last night, like, I'm going through some stuff in my brain and in my life, we're like, ooh, I, I need a couple of things. I need to do something. And that's to me, man, oh, I need to do more meetings. And, and I lived, I lived two miles from a club that has meetings all the time. But I wanted something different. So I went out to our buddy, Tim's who has a literal, literal TPs set up in his front yard

Matt: 4:40

Yes.

Steve: 4:41

and holds a meeting there on Saturday nights. So I picked up a friend. We went out there, had a nice meeting and it's what I needed. It's what, you know, keeps me safe because I'm not immune to really, really bad thinking and really, really bad thinking could lead me to pick up a drink. And I mean that. I'm like, I'm not immune to that. And I talked a little bit about that, the nice thing about going to a meeting like that, that meeting, is about 40 minutes from my house, but I actually went and picked up a friend. So I was on the road for about an hour and then we drove together for about a half an hour. It gave me a little bit of time to sort of, you know, I always like that a meeting before the meeting, a meeting after the meeting, right? Talk about what's going on and say, listen, I feel like I only have a few options right now. And again, you know, sometimes me overdoing it, but that's what it means to me is like, what do I need to do right now to make sure that I don't pick up the next drink? Because that's goal number one. Right? Cause if I don't, if I don't address that, if I ignore that feeling, everything else is is up for grabs. Everything else is then is in, you know, um, you know, can be can be a problem. So I always have to be careful with that. That's what my initial thought on that is.

Matt: 6:01

I'm just thinking I would have loved to have been in the back seat because the

Steve: 6:05

Yeah.

Matt: 6:05

person you were driving is one of my favorite people and just to just to chat or even just to listen a little bit, because it would have helped me. And when you talked about the 40 minutes to the TP meeting, that that is one of the, that's the main reason I very rarely go is I will overthink that it's 40 minutes away. And now I'm backtracking. When do I have to leave?

Steve: 6:27

Damn,

Matt: 6:28

when how long's the meeting going to be? How long is it going to be to come back? And I have blocked out all this time as that project. And I think, shit, I can't now get other things done. And now I'm paralyzed. And it's a real thing that I've got a, I've got a plan out going to that because he's 40 minutes away. He lives in the, he's on a hill in the woods. And that that in itself will paralyze me. But it is also one of the best meetings I would go to. It's, it's very, very good. It's not, I guess it's an AA meeting, but it's not an AA meeting because it's not on any schedule. This is something someone plans themselves. So it's different in that sense, but it follows a format. So it does feel like 1939 AA.

Steve: 7:19

It's an actually it's an AA meeting. It's just an AA group, right? That's what separates it, right?

Matt: 7:23

Ha, the AA.

Steve: 7:24

A group, a group goes on the website and a group gets publicized. But a meeting just happens. So it's an AA meeting for sure. And here's just to talk about it briefly. It's like I got there, right? We got there. I had that chance to talk, which was good, which is why I planned it. Because this other person could get themself there, right? We could have just met there.

Matt: 7:45

Yeah.

Steve: 7:45

And I'm like, and I'm like, no, no, no, let me all come meet you at your house and we'll ride together. And it was their first time going out there. So that was the other thing. But I knew, right? And this is the whole point. Like you said, like I left my house at five o'clock, right? For seven o'clock meeting and didn't get home till I don't know, quarter after nine, right? So it's a commitment, just like you said. So that's a four hour commitment I did to go to that meeting. But here's my point. I needed that. And to me, to me, the other thing is like I needed that four hours out of my house. That's what I need in a safe place. I mean that. I needed that last night. And part of that problem was I went out hiking last week. Everybody knows if you listen to podcasts, I love to hike. I go out there and I just overdid it like a typical alcoholic. And I flared up my plant, they're fasciitis. And I couldn't really hike. And I couldn't hike like I would have hiked just today. And that would have been a little bit of a relief for me. It would have gotten me out of the house for three or four hours. It would have given me a little bit because I loved that. That's a really peaceful place for me. But I couldn't do that yesterday. Right? So I was like, oh, I need to find something else to do. Something constructive. What do I need to do right now? I need to go to a meeting. And if that didn't work out at 10 E's because there is a long commitment, that's why I don't do it off of myself. Like I said, there's a club up the street. I go up there. There's a speaker meeting on Saturday night. I can go up there. It's a 6 30 meeting now. I can be home by quarter day, you know? It's like, um, so but I've always, I'm always trying to pay attention. Like what's happening in the moment. And for me, like I said, it was, I realized last night, like, ooh, you really need to do something. You need to, you need to make sure that you're, you're taking care of what you need to take care of.

Matt: 9:39

All right. So it sounds like for hitting this topic as top of mine, even without knowing it for both of us that there's that stuff going on. Uh, yesterday, yes, I have this enormous, I have this enormous pile of wood chips that was dropped

Steve: 9:58

I,

Matt: 9:58

in November. I go to chip drop. I get this pile of wood chips all the time. And I cover my vegetable garden with it. I use a back to Eden method of vegetable guarding, meaning I don't tell I don't really dig unless I'm transplanting. And I put a pile of wood chips down, and even if I put a thick pile of wood chips down. it burns through pretty fast. Every one or two years, I got to do it and it's a lot of work. And then last year, I had wrist surgery. So I really couldn't do it until my wrist healed. And then I had Lyme disease. And so it sat there from October till about now. And in the middle, because the pile was so large, the middle composted. And I really thought, like, did they like pile in dirt? Oh my god, no, this is compost. So I spent a weekend before doing this. And I spent I must have spent from like 1130 to maybe four with a couple of breaks, just shoveling and dumping over a large area. And I still felt like a failure because I didn't get it all done.

Steve: 11:12

Right.

Matt: 11:13

And my mind's still racing. I still have other things I got to do, but I got to get this done because if I don't get this done, I can't do the planning. And then I got my seeds, but I didn't get the inoculant for my Pseeds. It's like, oh my god, now I've done this for nothing, but I still have another task I want to do. But now I'm tired and I'm sore. And then I'm thinking of things at work. And so this really came into play because I've been thinking of all that of, why do I feel like a failure when I single-handedly have made this giant mountain, just a little mount mohal now? I'm looking at it now, like I could probably get this done pretty quickly this morning. Have my breakfast, finish my coffee, and I could probably do it this morning. But it's just not how my brain works. And I'm not more worried about drinking right now. I'm worried, sobriety-wise, about the mental health spiral. That's what to me, sobriety means. It's not picking up a drink. It's not mentally feeling fit. Now long-term, if I still feel mentally unfit, I'm probably gonna drink. But that's where my fear is. It's just the mental health aspect. I don't want that to go.

Steve: 12:44

I mean, but that is the start of it for those of us who identify as a real alcoholic, especially those of us who identify that through the process of AA, I think we all talk about that, that mental health, or that stinking thinking, or whatever you want to call it, and it's the same thing with me. I do the same thing. Again, like I talked about earlier, I look at something and all of a sudden, it's a bigger problem than I want it to be. And it's the same thing. I could feel like a failure. I can feel like, you know, I'm not doing as well. I'm not doing enough. I have all those same feelings. And most of the time, most of the time, I don't feel that way, right? Like I get it. Most of the time, I'm like, I'm good. I feel okay about my life. I feel like I'm doing productive things, but everyone's for a while, I get into that funk and I'm in one. I've been in one, this week was a tough week for me, mentally, just like you said, mentally, it was a tough week for me. And I realized, like, oh, I'm at risk. And again, I don't, the thought of drinking now. I mean, I don't think like, oh, I should go out and have a drink, but I do feel vulnerable when I'm in that place. I feel vulnerable that given the right circumstance, that just maybe, and again, just maybe I might just have a momentary lapse of judgement and go, you know, we talked about it a little bit like last night, somebody said, you know, I talked about the topic of the meeting with acceptance, right? And the guys about this, you know, sounds like what everybody's talking about is a little bit of what I call the fuckets. And I'm like, yeah, it's what it is, right? And I mean,

Matt: 14:31

Yep.

Steve: 14:32

We all get the fuckets once in a while. And for me, the fuckets are dangerous for an alcoholic, they are. They're dangerous plays to be. So, especially if I sit there and I isolate with that feeling, and which is why going out last week, last night, going out with another alcoholic, doing that work, talking about it, I come back and I feel a little bit better. I don't feel great this morning over everything, because nothing's changed, right? This is the point, like, I woke up this morning and nothing has changed, except that I took care of something. And the beautiful thing is, like, I can do that again today, right? There's plenty of meetings to go to today. I have a Sunday night meeting, right? One of the things I will tell anybody out there is you should have a meeting every night of the week that you can go to that you're comfortable in. My friend Jim Kelly says that and I only use his whole name because he uses his whole name. And he said that he was learning that he's been sober for a long time. But, um, he, and he said that he was, he was taught that, he was told that early on by his like first sponsor that he needed to find a meeting every night of the week and that's something I did naturally. I always wanted to know like where am I going tonight if I need a meeting. And, uh, I think those options that when I need to keep it simple, and again, you know, repeat myself, but sometimes keep it simple for me is just going to a meeting like that's how simple it is getting in my car, striving to a meeting and sitting somewhere for an hour, an hour and a half, uhm, and maybe hanging out and talking to another alcoholic after the meeting, um, could I always know somebody at these meetings. To keep it that simple and go listen and go talk and dump my stuff because I, I dump my stuff, I don't sit at a meeting quietly, I dump my stuff, uhm, and eventually this feeling of pass and things will get a little brighter for me, and uhm, and I won't feel so, I won't feel so desperate, you know.

Matt: 16:50

This is really obscure, but I have, I have a sound, I have audio somewhere of Ernie Andersen, Ernie Andersen as someone you may not know by name, but you know his son Paul Thomas Anderson who won an Oscar this year. Ernie Andersen was the voice at ABC for years and years and years, and he's known. You know him he's the guy who said that love

Steve: 17:17

boat, okay,

Matt: 17:19

uh, but he also was a perfectionist and he, he would, he would do these things, and because they didn't have digital then they would actually play the video that he's voicing over and he might get tongue tied or the are the script might not have been very good. And he would just stop and scream and I realize I've got to, I got to pull that of the, let me say the fuck it's I've got Ernie Andersen saying that it is, it is, it is just the feeling of the fuck it's the way he's set it, and it just made me think of that but with that roaring voice of his.

Steve: 18:00

Yeah,

Matt: 18:01

that I am so jealous of I will, I will say you said I didn't do anything I went to a meeting now you did do something that it where you said nothing's changed. It may feel like the rest of the world is keep spinning the way it was but you changed

Steve: 18:17

yeah

Matt: 18:18

that's the change you got to think about is the world's going to keep spinning. I need to do change and it's not necessarily I'm cutting off my arm it's needs to be a mental shift. And for me sometimes it's letting go I'm looking right now down at my little to do list that I have and it's large, but I got a lot of X's next and sometimes that shift is I'm going to let go items 2 and 3 right now. It's not realistic for me to get those done I made some progress on the wood chips because what I let go was going to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym this weekend why because I need that time to do the wood chips and I'm going to get exercise doing it. I have had a hard time filling my rings to get to the calorie count on my Apple watch, but I sure as hell went way over yesterday that was a different type of workout and I was smart to stretch twice because the last time I did this I was in pain and I was tight. But the fact that I needed to stretch tells me it was a pretty good full body workout. It just was a different type of workout. And so I have this feeling that if I don't go to the gym almost every day I'm going to stop going and oh my god I'm going to fall apart and I let go something that would be maybe an hour or two out of my day with travel and with going so that I could redirect it to something. I have to do my taxes that I'm going to have to do today that is a big thing over my head because we took some money out of an IRA way too big of money out of an IRA last year to do some home tax so I'm terrified what the tax consequence is going to be but I'm also aware that I'm not alone in that and they do a payment plans. The IRS understands that you may not have a large amount to pay immediately and there are ways of paying that off over time because other people do that it still freaks me out. But that's part of letting it go of I'm going to do that and I'm going to deal with it and there are money jams I've gotten into and have figured it out that I do have resources that I may not want to touch but they do have them. I'm real I off topic it's like getting your head differently I took a 401 K loan a few years ago to do our siding. and that is winding down. I could, and I didn't think about this. I could take some money from one place, pay off the loan, and then take another loan, this time at a larger amount, because I made the mistake of taking a loan, but not enough, not the max that they allow you to, but they only allow you take one loan. So it's almost like take the most you can do, and if you don't need it, throw it back in. And so, yeah, there are solutions to these problems. I'm not going to fall apart. I'm not going to lose the house. It's going to be okay. I don't want to say it's going to be okay because it always is, but it's, no, you've got more resources. Stop and stop catastrophizing. To me, first things first can often be stop catastrophizing. You're not going to fall apart. You're not that kid, and it comes back to, you're not that kid growing up in this and the two family house being on food stand.

Steve: 22:12

Right.

Matt: 22:12

You're not there anymore. You've come a long way. Give yourself some goddamn credit.

Steve: 22:19

Yeah, but just like we're hardwired, you're right. I mean, we talk, people have talked about it, um, scientists and all like how, like we're still hardwired to for survival, right? Back from back from the days when we used to be eaten by CB2 tigers and stuff. And like, so it's that fight or flight thing. Right? And they talk about it, right? That, that, you know, you would hear ruffling in the leaves and and you would either stop and check it out because maybe it was a CB2 tiger or maybe it was just a win. And they always say, well, the people who thought it might be a CB2 tiger and ran away are the ones who survived. Right?

Matt: 23:00

Yeah.

Steve: 23:01

So so we we do have that. I think about that whole thing. It's like same thing. I mean, we both talk about how we grew up, right? I grew up similar, no money and all. And and I've told this story before I can remember signing my first life insurance policy with a guy from 喔udento came and Stan. I'll never forget this guy. I like them a lot. And it was a whole life, which wasn't what I should have been signing. But anyway, um, but I remember asking him, he's damn, what happened if I lose my job? And he looked at me with a strange look and he go, you'd go get another job, right? And I went, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but it was like that panic of, right, like, oh, what what happens, right? Like that whole thing, like I just, I always, you know, again, as I talked about when we first opened the shows, like I do look at this stuff and sometimes it's just it's so hard for me not to look at the positive side and

Matt: 24:02

yeah,

Steve: 24:03

only to look at what's the struggle is, right? And you know, but again, I do realize that'll pass for the most part. The beauty of our program. And I guess all the programs too, but our program being a 12 step program in particular is that I know that I have options, right? That's, that's the thing. I know I have options and I haven't, you know, we both talked about, we got a bunch of years sobriety. And, and I haven't felt like, like one of my options was I needed to go out and drink like I haven't felt like that was the case. And as long as I take some pause and really think about what, you know, but I need to do next whether that's, go for a hike, whether that's go go to a meeting, whether it's pick up the phone, call another alcoholic, whatever it might be, I have some tools today. And my tools aren't to get in the car and just drive around. Right? I, I, I sponsored some people like, Oh, you know, I, I had the bad day and I went and I drove to the park and just sat there and I'm like, Oh, that sounds dangerous to me. You know, you're not, you didn't call anybody. It's one thing if you're going to go somewhere and you're going to make a phone call and you're going to sit somewhere in a park and make a phone call. But if you're going to sit there and isolate with that with that stuff, that sounds dangerous. And that's how I got myself in trouble the past. So, so today I do, you know, I have those options. I gotta look at it and then I have to choose those options, right? We, we talk about it today. It's like, whether I ever drink again, will is, is, will always be a choice for me at this point, right? It would always be a choice. So, you know, I have to look at, okay, what's going on? What's most important and I guess that what, what happens next? What happens next? And, you know, I'll tell you what happens next for me after this podcast is, is I, I go walk my dog, right? She's waiting for me to walk. A lot of times we, this is about the time we had out the door sometimes. So, she's waiting to go. And I'll get up and, you know, we go for a nice 45 minute walk in the woods and it's a nice way to start my day and and all that kind of stuff. But when you were talking about, you know, also moving moving those tasks around, right? Or I can't go to the gym because I gotta do the wood, but like, I mean, that's just, again, that's just life, right? That's not, you,

Matt: 26:31

yeah.

Steve: 26:31

us. We just have to do everybody have to do that and have to prioritize stuff and try to figure out what we want to get done, you know, I get it's that time, springtime here in Connecticut and I need it to get out and start doing some of that work the last couple days and clean up the, clean up the beds and get some of the leaves and trim some stuff back like and you know and look at it like okay, what do I need to do, you know, what can what can I get done out there today? And sometimes that's like I only have an hour and a half, sorry, right, you can't, you can't plan anything too big. What can I go out there and do? What am I willing to do? How, how dirty am I willing to get, right? Those are just some negotiations we all have in life. So they sound trivial. They may sound trivial, some people out there. Um, I really, these things are not trivial to me. They're not,

Matt: 27:23

no,

Steve: 27:24

because, um, because of my disease, because of the fact that for so long my solution, my problem was an alcohol, I mean that my problem was not alcohol, my solution was alcohol. And, and man, it's a, it's a scary thought that that someday I could go back to that. Um, but it's real, again, I want anybody out there, it's real, it's real for this alcoholic that I need to keep working at it. I need to and about it, I need to keep doing stuff, uh, or I could slip into a thing where, um, I get the fuck it and I go,

Matt: 27:59

keep

Steve: 27:59

what's it? No, really, like I

Matt: 28:00

yeah,

Steve: 28:01

get to the point, like, what's it matter anyway? Right? What's it matter anyway? Right? I'm like, I hate my life, whatever it might be. Like, and that's what I'm saying. Like, and none of that's true. This is, again, I want to make sure anybody listened to this, especially I have friends on stuff who listen to this podcast. Like, none of that's true, but at moments, it could feel like it's true head, you know?

Matt: 28:19

Yes. Where's the cop out here, though? The cop out question is, keep it simple, can become an excuse for not doing the hard

Steve: 28:28

work. Yeah.

Matt: 28:29

I keep it simple. I'm not doing enough. It feels like settling, but it also could be, well, I heard keep it simple. I'm just not going to do anything and everything will just be okay. Where is that line and what's the cop out and what's

Steve: 28:46

there's no question. I mean, I go, I just brought that up because there's no question that I think we see that with some people. Well, I don't want to complicate my life. I don't want to do this. To me, that's where having other people in this program and that that's where talking about it till the alcoholics comes in, right? And if you have the right people around you and if you're talking about it, I just know that if I, you know, if I go out there and talk to certain people, I will get instructions from these people. Like, these people will give me instructions on what I need to do. Not again, whether I take those that, I choose to do those things, that's up to me.

Matt: 29:24

That's an edson call when you're saying

Steve: 29:26

at absolutely

Matt: 29:27

tell me what to do.

Steve: 29:29

There's a couple people, but he's number one on my list. He's going to tell me exactly what I need to do. I mean that. He's

Matt: 29:35

Right.

Steve: 29:35

going to give me specific steps to do to get out of that. Right. But that will only happen if I call him up and I'm receptive to hearing that. Because there is a, there could be a car about, well, I don't feel like doing it. I don't do it. And one of the things I've talked about, we don't talk a lot about it here, but I think we're both in that same boat with, you know, a relationship to what we would consider a sponsor, you know? And I started really, really, like, that is something that I've been weighing on me for a while, and I need to do something about it. Because right now I'm in a place where I need to have that one person, who I could be calling up meeting with and doing some work. So, that is on us to do lists for me. And I do need to, and I've been avoiding taking some of that action.

Matt: 30:21

And I have been a yes me too.

Steve: 30:23

And it's either calling up the person who I consider my sponsor, who I'm sure is still willing, well, I shouldn't say I'm sure I can't, but I would think it's still willing to do that work with me. And if not, or if that's not right, the right person anymore, find someone who is. But it requires work, and it's easier to go, it's easier to avoid that because you know what happens if I, if I make that call, if I make that commitment, all of a sudden I have to do it. And all of a sudden,

Matt: 30:53

of course, you're going to be

Steve: 30:54

right,

Matt: 30:54

on a schedule now.

Steve: 30:55

Right. And all of a sudden, I have a, I have a new meeting I got to go to. I have to go meeting, right, which takes away, which means I can't do some stuff, right? All of the complications. So, I can easily cop out. I can easily cop out and go, Oh, I can't do that right now. Too busy. You know, um, but the truth is I should never be too busy for that kind of stuff.

Matt: 31:17

No, I agree. I agree. So let's wrap this up. Who needs this most? Everybody needs this most. You're a newcomer. Recovery is overwhelming. The sheer volume of change, meeting steps, feelings, the time commitment, keep it simple, can be a lifeline. It, it just means don't drink today. That's the whole job. But even a newcomer can use some simplicity to, uh, to look at is avoidance. It's not just drinking, it's doing any of the underlying work. You're an old timer. You've got a lot of years. You've built in your systems and your routine, it's your scaffolding. But man, the architecture can be complicated enough to be its own burden. And there is a version of long term sobriety, where you've got to simplify again, you've got to look at the scaffolding, strip it back, because it can be a cage, not scaffolding. I'd love to hear from you. You can find me at soberfriendspod.com. And you can also give us a review on Apple or on Spotify. Five stars, please tell us what you like and what you think. You could do differently to make this even better. Steve, I hope you have a great rest of your weekend.

Steve: 32:42

Thanks Matt. See

Matt: 32:44

everybody next week. Bye

Ernie Anderson: 32:46

Have

Matt: 32:46

everybody.

Ernie Anderson: 32:47

you heard? Have you heard Gary Craig all over the insurance city in Southern New England. People are talking about TICFM. Fuck it.