The Problem With Being Good at Gutting It Out

Being able to gut through pain can look like strength—until it becomes the reason you stay in a bad situation longer than you should. Matt talks about hitting a wall during a difficult medication taper, changing the plan, and still feeling like a failure for not pushing through.

Matt and Steve look at how that same stubbornness shows up in health, work, and addiction. They talk about mistaking willpower for recovery, waiting until the pain becomes unbearable before asking for help, and why admitting that something isn’t working isn’t the same as quitting. Sometimes strength is recognizing when you’ve had enough and choosing a healthier solution.

Transcript

Matt: 0:01

This can be a problem especially for those of us who have a problem with alcohol of that gutting out the pain. Having the high-pain tolerance is a problem because you can gut out more pain in addiction than other people might not who go and get help. Sometimes having a low pain threshold being able to say, "I'm tapping out here is the right thing to do." Welcome to the Sober Friends podcast on Matt J, Steve's over there. If you've ever wondered whether life can really get better with that alcohol here in the right place. Whether you need a recovery, have some time sober, or you're supporting someone you love, we're glad you're here. It's podcasts about sobriety emotional growth and learning how to navigate life without having to drink over it. That's the hard part, Steve. Knowing being able to do that without having to drink over it. How would you figure that out?

Steve: 0:58

I don't

Matt: 0:59

know if I have yet. Good

Steve: 1:01

morning. Good morning. That is the hard part, right? I mean for us, right, other people, maybe not, but for me, for you, for many of us, it's how do we navigate life without the crutch of alcohol, because many of us used it for.... It doesn't even matter how long we used it for. We got to a point where we used it as a crutch, we used it to cope, and it became problematic for us. I know it did for me, right, and it was a point where I had control over my drinking, even though I drank an excess and then all of a sudden something happened and I had no control, and I could not stop, and I couldn't all those type of things. So yeah, it's what we talk about in this podcast,

Matt: 1:45

is...

Steve: 1:46

Is how do you deal with life in sobriety, which is still life,

Matt: 1:52

Yep.

Steve: 1:52

right?

Matt: 1:52

Yep.

Steve: 1:52

So, it still comes with all the problems and all the stuff, and as we talk about it endlessly here, the things we talk about are the things we use to drink over. While you may be listening to what's that, what are they talking about that for? We talk about these things because these are the things that push me to drink. So, always glad to be here and do this podcast.

Matt: 2:19

In many ways, alcohol is a small part of this, it is that there's something in us that we can't get through life, we can't handle the pain of life without alcohol. That doesn't change after you give up alcohol, how you process what's going on in your life because you got to do it with that alcohol, is what changes and is what helps you get your life better. Now, I've talked a little bit about my medicine taper. I should have talked to quite a bit about it, both on here and in real life. Backtrack for those new, I've been on venlo-faxine, which is also called a flexor since 2016 or so, so about 10 years that I can remember. It is a medication that is notoriously hard to taper off of because it has a short half-life to the point that I met with a physician's assistant who said, "Yeah, I don't prescribe it anymore." Because of that particular issue, so I started tapering off of it, not because I don't think I need to be a medicine, but more because I don't think that this is the right approach. And to get to the right approach, I got to get off of this one first. I was at 300 milligrams for a long time, which is like a max dose. I started tapering in the fall every month, going down a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. Last month, I finally got to that point where I'm at the lowest dose, so now it's every other day, every two days, and I really hit a brick wall. Things started to feel very, very dark. And so I made the decision of you know, I'm going to go back to 35 and a half. I'm going to stay on that every day, or now, and slow this down. And God, I felt like a failure. And I realized that I, even though I was doing this every month tapering down, it really was going too fast. For some people, it's not me. It was. It was a situation where this was too fast. And I had to slow this

Steve: 4:34

yet

Matt: 4:34

down, and there's that one realization of, you know, quit to win, that stopping the taper for now, and slowing it down was the right thing. And the other part of me is, I'm being a baby. Why can't I just gut through this? And that is a lousy mindset to have. Have you ever changed something that wasn't clearly, that clearly wasn't working, but you still felt like you had failed because you didn't finish with the original plan.

Steve: 5:09

Oh, it happens to me quite often. Not as much lately because again, because I've been able to works and stuff out in my life. realize that I don't have to be perfect. Not that I ever thought I had to be perfect, but I would, many times I would start something and either not finish it the way I thought I should finish it or whatever it might be and then feel poorly and bad. And I do that less and less today. Today I realize that, you know, I don't, I don't have all the answers, right? And, know, sometimes, sometimes life just gets in the way and sometimes I'll start something and I'll get halfway through not so much for me to medications or anything because I don't do a lot of medications, but any type of project something I'll get halfway

Matt: 5:59

you

Steve: 6:00

through and realize I'm not liking the way things are happening or going. So I could very much easily go and think I wasted a lot of time. I do that less now. I do that like, I take it as a learning experience like, okay, that didn't

Matt: 6:15

yes.

Steve: 6:15

work. Let me, You know, in your case where you're dealing with something that is, yeah, like you said, it affects everybody differently, right? It's a medication that affects people differently and because it's affecting you differently, it doesn't mean you're a failure. The other thing is we talk about in our literature, our literature talks about it and we talk about it often is that we have these, we have these medical experts in our lives for a reason, right? You happen to have your medical people who help you with this and, and again, you know, so it takes you another, so it takes you another six months to get off this drug, right? If that's what

Matt: 7:00

you know,

Steve: 7:00

it takes and you're not, and you're not having dark thoughts and you're not having all this other stuff going on, then that's what it takes, right? So you really is something that you need to figure out. Again, lucky for us that we have medical professionals that we could lean on with this type of stuff and make sure that we're doing it right.

Matt: 7:24

Yeah, the thoughts were dark. I can realize that now, now that I'm out of that because in the time it felt like just things were falling apart and that wasn't the case. Once I went back on the medication daily, those things of everything is awful and nothing will ever improve, tamped down. The problems that I had seemed more manageable rather than there is no escape from this. And I realized that doing after that and doing some research of the reason I was getting such a relief from exercise was that the exercise was burning off adrenaline and cortisol. That would be a symptom of medicine withdrawal. If you're adrenaline is popping and fact that it just kept coming back, it's burning off, but I'm not fixing the situation. And it really took me some time to figure out what was I racing for. It just was sort of, I guess, even not fully consciously a source of pride that I could do this and I could fight through it. And I realized that I, you know, every time I tapered down for a week or two, I didn't feel great. And that was probably a symptom that at that point, I'm still going too fast, the fact that I went through months of this up and down, even though it wasn't as bad as it was in the last month. I was going up and down and gutting my way through it. This can be a problem, especially for those of us who have a problem with alcohol of that gutting out the pain. Having the high pain tolerance is a problem because you get out more pain in addiction than other people might not go and get help. So this doesn't help me. Sometimes having a low pain threshold of being able to say, I'm tapping out here is the right thing to do.

Steve: 9:23

That's a great point, Matt, because I always say that I have a high pain tolerance. And I do. I believe I do. And I have a high uncomfortable, uncomfortable ability tolerance. Meaning that I don't mind being uncomfortable. And this shows up and it's actually shown up in my life right now. So I don't want to gross anybody out. But this is nasty GI parasite bug going around that I am 100% sure that I have last Saturday we recorded this on a Sunday. yesterday, but the Saturday before I went to a walk in clinic, which is still associated with my PCP run by the same hospital, the same group I mean. And I picked that up perfectly because it's easier for them to communicate. And they didn't do anything for me, and whatever, for whatever they have. But my tendency, and I thought about this day, my tendency is not to allow my body to try to fix a lot of its own stuff. Like a lot

Matt: 10:28

Not

Steve: 10:28

of people will get a symptom, whether it is, and they'll take, you know, like an anti diarrhea medicine. I have a tendency to let it go for a while to see if my body could clear it myself. Everybody write that letter and write it in the comments. And I started thinking about this, like, 'This has been going on for a while.' So I went to the clinic last week, and she asked me if I was taking, you know, the APR, and I asked me, 'Are you taking anything for it?' And I said 'No', and then it hit me like, 'Why am I not taking something for it?' Right, this

Matt: 10:58

Right.

Steve: 10:58

is my point. And because I want to gut it out, I want it to path whatever it is, I started thinking about that, like, 'That's a bit of a flaw in my makeup.'

Matt: 11:10

Or is,

Steve: 11:11

right, that I'm not addressing Yeah. And so I started thinking about,'Now I am.' And here's the thing, she prescribed me some stuff on Saturday. I didn't pick it up until Wednesday morning, right?

Matt: 11:25

it.

Steve: 11:26

I still had, right, it's like, so anyway, it's like, I realized that that's a problem for me. And I need to do a better job with that. I will tell you what helps me doing that is me talking to my own PCP, my doctor, who I like and trust, and he knows me, right? I've been going to this doctor for 20 years. He knows me, he knows what I like, he knows that I like the least amount of, you know, intervention. For years, we were talking about putting me on some cholesterol meds, I was like,'No, I resisted it, resisted it, resisted it, finally this past year, I went, all right, I'll try a little, I'll try the lowest dose. And I had amazing results with it. But my point is, you know, I need to remember that that's an issue for me. And I probably need to act more proactively than I do. And I do think that's because I have a higher taught, you know, a higher, you know, tendency to not worry about being uncomfortable or playing or whatever it might be. And I think that can be problematic, right? part of that is my makeup, and being able to put up with feeling like crap the next day, and still being able to, you know, and do it all over again.

Matt: 12:59

was cholesterol because I first time I had a uhh, blood test done for a physical, So he's like, nah, I won't put you on cholesterol meds. we need to do something about this. I don't want to go into a bed like this. So I had been on cholesterol med since my 20s. And there was like a period of time I guess I ran out. I didn't have the prescription redone. And I did a blood test. And it was something like in the mid to high 300s at

Steve: 13:40

Yeah.

Matt: 13:40

that point. So the only thing that has helped me is like a mega dose of crestor. And now it is at a ridiculously low level. And I'm sure diet and all that helped. But it's the med. And otherwise I would be laying down plaque. And maybe I already do have plaque. And hopefully this has slowed it down. That is one of those areas where I'm like, I don't want to have a problem there. That's a place. I am also in other places of where it's like,

Steve: 14:17

Right.

Matt: 14:20

I'm not going to. And there are times that I will like getting on wagovie was a place where the pain tolerance was helpful because I had to fight my And that's where it became like my character defects of pride and not backing down was helpful of you are not going to screw I will run you down to the gates of hell to make sure. And if I have to like make myself sick to the point of being tireless and running, writing the truth is a kind of? To the point of being tireless and running, writing, running you down I will do that. And that's that's how I got things approved. That sometimes that can be helpful. Most of the time it's pretty armful.

Steve: 15:02

Yeah.

Matt: 15:04

And if I think sometimes that we look at like if I was a stronger person, I can get through it. Maybe the answer there is strength is knowing when to tap out. And I don't think we say that enough times. You said something there of you know when the project doesn't work well, that's a learning opportunity. I've gotten much better at that at work that there has been some times I've created something and it never gets used where gets bounced back. And to keep myself sane, I now look at that of like, okay, that project didn't get work didn't get used, but I learn some skills doing it.

Steve: 15:40

Right.

Matt: 15:40

So it wasn't a waste. And I changed things at work around if it gets used and people like it, that's

Steve: 15:46

bonus.

Matt: 15:46

a But the victory is doing it and learning something. And I think it's a much better way at looking out a lot of things. Like with this medicine taper. I learned something that my body is not adjusting to the taper well. It's very used to the medication. It needs more time to adjust. And so that's what I'm going to do. And with alcohol realizing my body can't handle alcohol, that I am using alcohol in a way that is an elixir to my problems and I have to find a different way. And that's okay. I didn't fail. It's that I'm tapping out and saying enough pain. I need to find another solution that's far healthier. And in addiction recovery, you may talk yourself out of it by saying, I just need to try harder. It isn't bad enough to change. And if you are telling yourself those things, you probably have a problem.

Steve: 16:54

Yeah, you know, it's encouraging, what we're talking about here is willpower, right? I have the willpower to fight through this, right? And it's one of the things that when we get into our program, our 12 step program of alcoholics anonymous, is that we talked about that willpower cannot fix our issue of alcoholism.

Matt: 17:12

Cannot.

Steve: 17:13

And for us, it's true. I know for other people, you know, again, I get into a lot of, I've been into some discussions and social media posts and stuff like that, but we've talked about the broad spectrum spectrum of alcoholism, which I 100% agree with today, right? There's a whole, you know, and people who've been this thing, I'm going thing of not using the word alcoholic anymore, that it's an alcohol use

Matt: 17:43

disorder.

Steve: 17:44

Use disorder, right? Thank you. And, and I agree with that too, like I get it because that talks about the broad spectrum, but I fall at the far end of that spectrum where I put, and I just had this conversation with somebody who's posting some stuff on social media. I'm like, listen, I call myself an alcoholic because I have to remember that because my life starts to unravel long before I pick up a drink. So I always have to remember that my, the problem is that one of the problems, not all the, one of the issues is that I am an alcoholic and that impacts my life in other ways. So, you know, and again, so I have to remember that willpower is something that I have to be careful. Now, willpower will help me just like you. Like I will fight over principle. Okay, I just, I just had a big thing. I'll talk very briefly about it. I had a big thing. I'm dealing with a new supplier at work. I bought some equipment from this new supplier when we bought it and paid for and I buy laptops and stuff like that. Right? And I won't get into exactly what I do, but I buy I'm in big lots that the specs on these laptops was wrong. Right? It was wrong. And we overpaid this lot by $50 something thousand, somewhere between 50 and 60 thousand, which is a lot of money. We're not a big company. And I went back and told them about this and this supplier that I have has, they have a 14 day window where you have to make your claim by, which is ridiculously short, right? Like I've been in this business

Matt: 19:26

years.

Steve: 19:26

for 30 And, and this is a new supplier. And I have a tendency to be really, really pushing these things, right? Like really go after people. But I really dialed it back and I had a call. And so anyway, so I finally got word this week that they were rejecting this claim. And I had a whole email sent and it was not, it was, it was professional but strongly worded, right? And then AI fixed it off for me and wrote it so much better, right? Still

Matt: 19:59

good

Steve: 19:59

But I,

Matt: 20:00

AI.

Steve: 20:00

right, it was a great use of it. But even then I showed it to my team like, do you want me to send this email, right? So I look for it like because I'll find it unprinciple, right? I'll find it unprinciple. But I needed some other people to buy into it. So long story short is that I sent that email on Friday. And my wife had an appointment. I was waiting for her. She about two hours at this appointment. I was out in the car reading and playing my phone and doing some work on my phone. And I get email from back from the guy on Saturday morning saying, hey Steve, if I'm coming off as unprofessional, I don't mean to do that. Let's get together for a call and I love you to come see one of my sites, right? So, my point is, this email that I sent, which was tough and was calling him out on some of his stuff, okay. It's, it's, it's here to be the best, you know, you can see that, yeah, yeah, it's available by your own data. So, therefore, I don't need to return the equipment, you can see, oh yeah, oh yeah, we gave you the wrong, you know, like, like, so anyway, uhm, And I was so proud of myself that I did that the right way, that's the point I'm making, right? Because my thing is to use my willpower to smash true stuff, okay. And to, and to take no hostages, to get the result I want. My program has helped me to really pause a little bit and really do it. And then I have other people that I have to think about within my company

Matt: 21:49

yep.

Steve: 21:49

that I don't want to, I don't want to hurt them, you know.

Matt: 21:52

You don't want to torch the relationship.

Steve: 21:53

Right, because this is a new relationship, and it's not huge. But I've learned over my career, because I've been in this career for 30 years, that small counts can become big accounts.

Matt: 22:04

And,

Steve: 22:05

and we don't know what the future holds. So, discount, which we don't do a lot of business with, this, this was the biggest deal we ever did with one discount. And it went bad. but hopefully we can do more. So my point is like I always have to be checking myself, my willpower, my attention is my motive. And just like, just like in your situation, when you have a medical person that you could ask for help, you know, I went to my team. I'm this call and say, hey, is this is this good or is this bad? And even they even thought the AI one was a little tough, right? Like even when they saw it, they're like, oh, you know, one of the guys up in in the home office, used AI again on it, and they rewrote it. And it said. And when he you put AI to, he's like, oh, you don't want to say this.

Matt: 22:57

Yes,

Steve: 22:58

But that was what my I came back in anyway, and it worked, right? It worked that that tough pushback on this account work. Now I don't know where it's going to lead yet. But my point is, it was leading to some difficult emails between me and this other person. And now we're going to have a face to face video call. And then I'm going to end up going to one of his one of those facilities that this guy manages, and I'll get to meet him. And hopefully it will turn into a long term beneficial

Matt: 23:26

relation.

Steve: 23:27

Right. So what could have been messy and ugly and that could be turning. So again, why am I talking about that kind of stuff? Because these are the things I learned how to do. And these are the things that I learned that I just can't be a bull in a china shop

Matt: 23:39

Nope.

Steve: 23:40

with everything in my life. And that's what you're saying. Like this whole thing of willpower pushing through, I feel like a failure. Right. I can't have that attitude all the time because that attitude mostly will get me in bad situations. Yeah. And then again, I mean, I certainly wouldn't drink over a work situation like this. But, but if I was drinking, I was pretty irritated by this.

Matt: 24:09

And

Steve: 24:10

if I was drinking, I was in a bad, you know, I was in a bad spot. I was irritated. And I would have been drinking probably more because of the situation. So, I don't know, it's, you know, as we talked about early on, right, what we talk about in this podcast is when I wake up in the morning, how do I deal with life?

Matt: 24:30

Yeah.

Steve: 24:30

I mean, on a day-to-day basis, you know, it's like living life on life terms. Like we could talk about that all the time. And not only do I have a GI thing going on, my dog has a GI thing going on. I've just went to the bed like so I have to, you know, I have to manage all of this, right, which means that my dog has waking me up in the middle of the night. I'm cranky. I'm tired. Yeah. And that's life. But that's life.

Matt: 24:59

If it makes you feel any better, I think that we'll go is causing me to have a GI issue too. Which, which, which can happen.

Steve: 25:08

Yeah, I don't I, that was my initial thought with this whole thing when it started like a month ago, like, oh, this is DeMite the G. L. P.

Matt: 25:16

For

Steve: 25:16

1.

Matt: 25:17

Bill from sober, not mature, this is called the loose stool portion of the program.

Steve: 25:21

Right. Yeah. But, but I don't know after after doing some research, I am this whole thing that's going around. I have all the symptoms of it.

Matt: 25:32

Yes.

Steve: 25:32

Right. There's there's more and more. I have all the symptoms of it. Right. And so that's why I went to the walking clinic. I thought I could go there. I thought maybe they'd order a test and then I could get some antibiotics and I could be rid of it. And she's like, no, I can't do any of that. You got to go back to your doctors and do those tests and. And now here I am. It'll be two weeks out. My next my appointment that they gave me with my doctor is next Friday. Right. So I

Matt: 25:56

Right.

Steve: 25:56

went to a walking clinic. It's two weeks before I get back. And here's a point and this is just a little bitch, bitch session for me. I'm going to go to my doctor's office and then I'm not going to ask me any of the questions that it didn't answer at the walking clinic. You're going to ask me all those same things. Right. And then yeah, maybe they'll finally order me some tests. And I'll finally find out what's going on. So anyway.

Matt: 26:16

This can take weeks. This is from what I understand about this thing. This is a up and down up and down.

Steve: 26:23

Right.

Matt: 26:24

Almost sounds like line disease for the colon.

Steve: 26:27

Yeah.

Matt: 26:27

The issues I had with line disease. So before Steve got help, this is what that phone call what a sound like.

Iron Sheik: 26:34

Fuck you, baby shit.

Steve: 26:37

It's for to still sounds

Iron Sheik: 26:40

like.

Steve: 26:41

It's what it still sounds like in my head.

Matt: 26:44

Yeah.

Steve: 26:45

The thing is the difference today is it doesn't come out of my head as much out of my mouth as much. But still in my head it sounds like that. I still think like that. Like when I when I left the walk in clinic, I was pissed off at this APRN because like she didn't do she didn't do anything for me. And then

Matt: 27:05

after

Steve: 27:06

I had a few days to process it. I'm like, she followed her protocol. Right. Her protocol is I can't do anything. You got to go back to either GI specialist or your own PCP and get your testing done. So it's like

Matt: 27:19

she would be doing the wrong thing.

Steve: 27:21

right,

Matt: 27:22

If

Steve: 27:22

because my first thought was just just, oh, yeah, they're going to send me a survey and I'm going to blow it up. And I'm like, no, I won't do that. But again, that's that's me. That's my alcoholism. That's who I am. That's that's the type of stuff I fight all the time in my own brain. Right. That whole, you know, oh, I'm being wrong. Right. I'm being wrong. I need, I need. I need some real relief because I'm being wrong. So I always have to be careful. I have to be careful with my stuff of what's going on. And again, it gets worse when I'm tired. Like the dog had the dog. Between me and the dog, I was up three, four times a night, right. And for the last last night was first day, my dog, the dog didn't get me up to get take her out. It was first night in like five days.

Matt: 28:08

So

Steve: 28:09

it's been it's been a tiring long thing. But we survive it. We wake up. It's another day. Yeah, I wake up. I woke up grateful today. I really did. I woke up grateful today. I feel okay. I had a nice walk with the dog. Weather has finally cleared here in the northeast. There's a lot in my life to be grateful for, you know?

Matt: 28:30

So took

Steve: 28:31

I

Matt: 28:32

good God the smoke. Good. I could hear, I could hear it yesterday in my lungs just rattling.

Steve: 28:39

Yeah,

Matt: 28:39

that the asthma was starting to build.

Steve: 28:41

Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible this area. Yeah. And I, you know, I was able to get out early the last few days and do some work. But it's been a it's been a long haul for me. Like I said, I haven't felt up the par. I was supposed, you know, again, this is a little bit session, but I was supposed to go hiking and Friday. I didn't go mostly because of the dog. And then I woke up and Friday morning. I was supposed to go hiking Saturday. I woke up Friday morning, and I had another bout of my problem. And I'm like, well, I wouldn't be going anyway. So, no, and that's the whole thing that brings disappointing because this is a big hike. I was looking forward to. So I have to I always have to, you know, work my way through those disappointments. How do I deal with those?

Matt: 29:24

Mm hmm.

Steve: 29:25

Because again, I drank over my disappointments for 20 years, you know.

Matt: 29:29

So if it if you were doing the hike with the other severe elderly gentleman that I know of, that would have been a bad idea. Just for the smoke, and I say the severe elderly gentleman because He's a stubborn asshole too.

Steve: 29:46

yeah.

Matt: 29:46

Who will push himself to the point of stripping his knees. And sometimes it's like, asshole. Don't go out there just because it's smokey, and that you're going to push on a hike. And that the weather conditions and just the smoke being so thick, you may do harm. Don't be stubborn.

Steve: 30:07

Can I I'll just I'll just say this as we get we're getting to the end here. I've been watching a lot of World Cup, I'll watch the World Cup today. The finals is

Matt: 30:16

But

Steve: 30:16

today.

Matt: 30:16

I'm laying on it. But yeah, me too.

Steve: 30:18

ehm, I am really enjoyed it and there was one announcer, uhh, I don't know who that is, I don't follow the thing but one announcer who would say when a team was trying to protect it like a one-gold lead. Well, they're just gonna have to suffer for the next 20 minutes. Like,

Matt: 30:35

just,

Steve: 30:36

they're

Matt: 30:36

heh heh

Steve: 30:36

they're

Matt: 30:37

heh,

Steve: 30:37

just gonna round and play good defense. Right? And really chase and suffer. And I get what he means. Like, it's late in the game, you're gonna have to suffer through it. You're gonna be exhausted, you're gonna feel like puke him. And I've said to a couple different people. I don't mind suffering. Like I, I, I go on this hike I was supposed to go on was a huge hike, I was almost 10 miles. It was 3600 feet of elevation. If you know that hiking, that's a good hike. Uhm, and I said, I don't mind going on a hike like that and suffering during the hike because it would be some suffering for me to do that hike. It's not all enjoyable. Uhm, but you're right, the weather was supposed to be bad, right? We had, we had rain come through. This was up in the white mountains in New Hampshire and then the smoke. And I finally decided, both of those things, this was before I pulled the, I pulled the plug on this on Thursday night before I even had my GI issue, um, could flare back up is like, okay, the smoke is bad. There's a chance for rain and thunderstorms. I don't want to be up on a 4000 foot of ridge line with that stuff. Right.

Matt: 31:39

And then no.

Steve: 31:39

And then the dog started having really problems and I was just like, okay, everything's pointing. And this is the beauty, I guess I'll say this. Everything's pointing that I should stay home. That's what I mean. All the things were pointing that I should stay home. And in the past, I would push through that and go. Just like you talked about the other elderly gentleman, he wasn't going on this. This is

Matt: 32:01

oh,

Steve: 32:01

a different,

Matt: 32:01

he was

Steve: 32:01

some different people. But yeah, this, this is like, I would push through it and say screw it, right and go. And today I have to be more careful with that. I don't want to put myself at risk. So anyway, and hindsight, it was the right, it was the right column hindsight, right. I mean, it really was.

Matt: 32:22

other elderly gentleman, just to be fair, I could probably kick my ass with one

Steve: 32:25

So the

Matt: 32:25

hand

Steve: 32:26

back.

Matt: 32:26

behind his Even with the decades he has

Steve: 32:28

So

Matt: 32:28

on me.

Steve: 32:28

yeah,

Matt: 32:29

let's be clear about that, yeah, not good for the dog. So

Steve: 32:33

Yeah.

Matt: 32:34

I discovered something called a push check. You can use use this for yourself, PUSH. So P, what's the plan supposed to accomplish? Has the original goal become more important than your actual wellbeing? It sounds like that

Steve: 32:52

been.

Matt: 32:52

height could have

Steve: 32:53

Wow. You,

Matt: 32:55

what am I unwilling to admit? Evidence consequences or feedback am I minimizing? Is shame? S is shame making the decision? Am I continuing because it's right or because stopping would make me feel weak? And age? What would honesty change? Would honesty mean resisting, asking for help, slowing down and seeking professional guidance or changing the timeline? It doesn't automatically tell you to stop, but it tells you to stop pretending there's no decision to make. I'll copy this in the show notes. I thought this was helpful and like, uh, uh, feeling an awful four parts sometimes on this.

Steve: 33:40

That is an absolutely great tool. Have you ever heard that before? Um, I love it. And, um, I hope I can remember at the time. So take a, just take a, take a quick break in my head and go, let me do a push check. Right? Let me, let me check this out because, um, yeah, I mean, I, I think I've pushed through stuff, ignoring all of those things, right? All of those things and without really analyzing what's going on. So that's a great little tool.

Matt: 34:12

So changing course is not always courage and pushing through is not always didn't. But when the evidence keeps telling me something's wrong, honesty has to matter more than proving how much I can tolerate. So I'm going to leave you on this. I still brain fog. I still have anxiety. I'm still tired and I do not know exactly how long this period's going to last, but I'm trying to stop treating suffering as proof that I'm doing the work correctly. So for now, progress means telling the truth about where I am. I hope that's the same for you, Steve. Thanks for the show today.

Steve: 34:49

Yeah, thank you, Matt,

Matt: 34:50

and we'll see everybody next week. Bye, everybody.