Something Actually Wrong, or Does It Just Hurt?

Sometimes something can hurt deeply even when nothing is wrong.

After dropping his son Owen off at college, Matt expected the hard part to be worrying about whether he would be okay. Instead, the emotion hit when he realized the opposite: Owen was ready. He had found his people. He was going to be fine. And a chapter of Matt’s life as a parent had changed anyway.

Matt and Steve talk about grief that comes without tragedy, what it means to be present for moments you can’t fix, and how sobriety changes the way we experience painful feelings. Not every uncomfortable emotion is a problem to solve. Sometimes it just hurts—and learning not to run from that can be part of recovery.

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Matt: 0:00

Welcome to the Sober Friends Podcast. I'm Matt Jay and over there is Steve. If you've ever wondered whether life can really get better without alcohol, you're in the right place. Whether you're new to recovery, have some time sober, or you're supporting somebody you love, we're glad you're here. This is a podcast about sobriety, emotional growth, and learning how to navigate life without having to drink over it. That's today. This is what I got here for the podcast. My box of Kleenex, which I've been destroying over the past, uh, 24 hours or so. It's funny when you get, uh, you come off of meds or go on the right meds that you start.

Steve: 0:41

Yeah.

Matt: 0:42

So, I'll tell you my story. This, this is, this is about sobriety. Uh, we have drifted in this podcast a lot towards, like, the real life stuff. And I think that is a better sobriety

Steve: 0:54

of

Matt: 0:54

story real life happens. How do you navigate the good, the bad, the ugly without having to take a drink? So, yesterday was the day. We're taping this on Sunday morning. On Saturday, I dropped Owen off up at Endicott in Beverly, Mass. We spent the day up there with him, you know, getting him set up. And he was nervous most of the day.

Steve: 1:25

Hmm.

Matt: 1:25

He kept saying, you know, am I isolating? I see other people like socializing and stuff. And I'm like, dude, you've been here a couple hours. Like, chill out. Like, you could, you could just go rush a table over there and just introduce yourself. It's kind of awkward because they're with their parents and stuff. But you're fine. And I, I told them a bunch of times that, you know, this is your day. We're here to support you. As long as you want us here, we're here. And the moment that you don't need us here, you tell us and we'll hit the road. So the college has a, like a president's address at 3 p. m. We dropped off at 10. At 3 p. m. There's like a president's address, which is really the, the, the indication of parents go home. This is when you can go home. So we're walking over to the address and he just ran into a couple of players from the volleyball team. So I kind of stepped aside. The family stepped aside and they're chatting for quite a bit. And my daughters are like, oh, this is awkward. What do we do? And I'm like, just hang here. Give him his space. And I could look over and could see that the, um, the anxiety in him was draining out and he finished talking. He, he, he walks over from them and he comes over and he goes, I'm good. You guys can head out. And I could only give him like the biggest hug ever. I couldn't even say anything. And we headed out and I'm choked up. Not because I'm worried about him. I'm emotional because I wasn't worried because he's going to be okay. I was like fighting tears the whole time yesterday. God, I was looking around. I'm like, why aren't the other parents a mess like me? Like, why is it that I'm the only one? We took him, we went around and there's like these little booths and stuff. And one of them is like the academic success area. And that is like the tutoring and stuff. And he's talking to like the director there. And they got into like a sports medicine conversation because she's 72 and she was in a walker and she made it very clear. Like, I'm not in a walker cause I'm old. I broke my pelvis. So I had surgery and I'm rehabbing it and she's showing us. She's like standing there hopping around on one leg and stuff and was doing a good job. And he's chatting with her and she just kind of stops and looks at him. And she goes, you're really good with people. And I kind of jumped in. I'm like, he's good with everybody. He's good at talking to adults, his peers, little kids. He is great at meeting people where they are. And she's like, you should come and tutor. Not, you know, you need tutoring. Like, you should be a tutor. And I pulled him aside afterwards. I'm like, you should take her up on that offer. Because that is an interview answer to a job interview Sunday. You know, you don't have to do that immediately. But, and I talked to my wife about it. She's like, he's got to figure his schedule out. And he's an athlete.

Steve: 5:19

And

Matt: 5:19

he's going to have, you know, time management and stuff. So, you know, don't push him too hard. But I look at that and I'm like, the sports medicine thing is part of the thread there is he's a leader. Like, he's going to be a good coach. I could see him coaching a team or helping coach. And I look at that tutoring, I'm like, he'd be fantastic as a tutor. And just having that experience of meeting somebody who's not as organized as him at their level. But this really, the emotion here wasn't about something bad happened. It was that it's quite the opposite. Something could happen. I guess the question I have is, can a good outcome create such a painful feeling?

Steve: 6:18

Yeah, um, it's, it's, it's actually

Matt: 6:22

here

Steve: 6:22

nice to sit and watch you go through this, right?

Matt: 6:26

Yeah. is.

Steve: 6:27

It

Matt: 6:27

Killing these,

Steve: 6:28

um, because it's just such a, a really good true emotion. It shows that connection that you've, you have with your son. Um, you know, it shows that you're not trying to dampen these emotions with.

Matt: 6:46

No,

Steve: 6:46

Says whether it's be

Matt: 6:48

no.

Steve: 6:49

legal, whether it be legal substances of being prescribed, like, oh, I don't want to feel this. So I'm going to take my Ativan or whatever. Right.

Matt: 6:56

Yeah.

Steve: 6:56

Or alcohol. Like we did, like,

Matt: 6:59

just.

Steve: 6:59

like

Matt: 6:59

Yeah.

Steve: 6:59

Be able to feel that stuff and go through that. Like to do it. And it's just one of those points in our lives that we get. I remember my, my, both my kids went to in-state colleges. So they weren't, but still it was. And then I was also divorced from their mom. So my kids didn't live with me full time. So that, that separation was easier, right? It just was, it was easier for me. It wasn't like, you know, I was going home to a house without a, without that child because their child wasn't in my house all the time. They were there regularly, but not. And by the time they got to college, they were at my house less and less because they were just 17, 18 year old kids. And they came to dad's house less because they had a car and all

Matt: 7:40

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 7:40

those things. So, so that, that, that separation for me was different, but I understand that. Like, like I have always said it when my daughter, when, if my daughter gets married, like I will be a babbling idiot.

Matt: 7:54

Yep.

Steve: 7:55

I will be a babbling idiot. There is no question about it. I won't be able to hold it together. I already know that, right? I won't be able to do any of that. I'm not sure I'll be able to give any speeches because that's just the way it is. And I'm, I'm good with that. I like, I'm good with that. I'm good with having those feelings of emotion and love and happiness. So they're, they're just, they're just difficult times, right? They're just difficult times. And, um, and the beautiful thing is that we can have these moments. They can be really gut wrenchingly painful, but yet be good at the same time. Right? They could, they could be good at the same time. Like your son is stepping off into adulthood. He is stepping off and he is going to start charting the life that he's going to live. And listen, there's, I got to believe that I, you talk about your son all the time. We talk about it more off this podcast, right? Of what type of young man he is. But there's always that back of the, and me, my, my kids are great. So always that little back of the mind thing was like, Hey, they, they're coming from an alcoholic family.

Matt: 9:05

Yes.

Steve: 9:05

They got an alcoholic dad. They had an alcoholic maternal, uh, grandmother. Um, do they have a ticking time bomb in the back of their thing?

Matt: 9:16

Jesus,

Steve: 9:16

Right?

Matt: 9:16

I

Steve: 9:16

Like,

Matt: 9:16

think about that all the time.

Steve: 9:17

Right. Is there a ticking time bomb that something's going to set that off? Like that never leaves me. That never leaves me. But, and here's what I'll say about that. The other thing is not that I wouldn't be crushed if that happened, because the other thing, we do a lot of meetings. We talk to a lot of people. There are a lot of people in AA who are also members of Al-Anon because they

Matt: 9:38

Yep.

Steve: 9:39

have a brother, a sister, a cousin, or a child who are struggling with addiction. So if one of my children ever came to me, and this is my, my, my wife's children too, actually one of my wife's sons did, is in the program, right? I mean, like he did, he did come, he did, this has happened to him. Um, so if that happens to one of my kids, I'll be, I'll be crushed emotionally, but I won't be surprised. I mean that I won't be surprised at all. Like,

Matt: 10:10

no,

Steve: 10:11

you come from a family like that. Um, there's no indication that that's going to happen. My kids drink very little. Uh, I've never seen, I've never seen my kids have more than one or two drinks. I mean that anytime. And some of that out of, was out of respect for me early on. And now it's just who they are. They just don't drink that much. Um,

Matt: 10:32

how long did it take for them to drink? Did they, did they start late?

Steve: 10:37

Um, I think they, they, I think they dabbled in high school probably, right? Like there was time my daughter would come home and I was so proud of my daughter. One time she came home with me. She had a good friend. She had a good friend who is now dead of an overdose of an overdose, right? Um, and she was a good, this was a young girl who same age. They went to high school. They played sports together who has slept in my house many times

Matt: 11:00

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 11:01

and, and died about, you know, my daughter's, uh, my daughter will be 33 this year. Um, and died about five years, died in her twenties of an overdose.

Matt: 11:09

Ugh.

Steve: 11:10

Um, and I remember back in the high school days that she went to the movies and was dropped off at the movies to meet up this, her friend and another friend and her other friend had a car and was driving. And when she got there, she realized that that friend had been drinking.

Matt: 11:27

Hmm.

Steve: 11:27

It was now overdue. And she did not, she would not get in the car with her. I was so proud of her at that age to be able to say, I'm not going to get in the car with you because

Matt: 11:35

That's

Steve: 11:36

you've been drinking. Right. And she called her mom and her mom came together. I, I'm just telling you, I just like, I wouldn't have done that. I didn't have that in me.

Matt: 11:46

poor.

Steve: 11:47

I would have gotten in the car. I would

Matt: 11:49

car.

Steve: 11:49

have

Matt: 11:49

In

Steve: 11:49

gotten in

Matt: 11:49

the

Steve: 11:49

the

Matt: 11:49

car with family members.

Steve: 11:51

Right. So, um, anyway, so it, it's really this, this, this great thing to go through and this painful thing to go through. Um, and it's just, you know, so listen, it's just, it's, it's, it's going to be amazing to watch him. And again, hopefully, you know, life does what life does. We can't control life. Um, to watch him bloom into whoever it is. And I, I remember, listen, I remember my son went to school and my son, my son got an anthropology and social sociology degrees. I'm like, what, what the hell are you going to do with that? Right. What the hell are you going to do with those degrees?

Matt: 12:29

Hmm.

Steve: 12:30

But I, I never told him that he shouldn't do those things. And, and he's figured it out. He became a guidance counselor. Right. And that's sort of what he did with it. And when I got a master's degree and got, you know, it's a guidance counselor. Um, and he loved working next. He loves his summers off. Um, he doesn't make a ton of money, but he, he's okay with that too. And, uh, because he allows him to do things that he likes to do. So, it's, it's nice to watch our children grow and become these adults. And you're just, you're just doing that. Like I said, my son is 36. My daughter's 33 will be 33. Um, it's nice to see how they've gotten in their life. Um, but you know, I'm, I'm not removed from their life. Right. I'm still

Matt: 13:15

um,

Steve: 13:16

part of their lives. I'm still doing stuff. I talked about, you know, going down. I still help my son. Um, so, so you never move away from that. But, um, the beautiful thing is we're, we're able to participate. We're able to be available, right? To take your son. Think about it. To take your son up there and not be hyper-focused on, man, I can't wait to get out of here so I could start drinking.

Matt: 13:40

Exactly.

Steve: 13:42

Right. I mean that, like

Matt: 13:44

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 13:44

that, that would be me. I can't wait to get out of here so I can get home and start relaxing. Right. I would make blahs. I'm going to go home and I'm going to relax with a, with a glass of wine or a few beers or a bottle, you know, a glass of tequila. Um, there was no relaxing. That's not true. It would, it would relax me. Um, and, and, and that wasn't a lie, but the problem was I didn't stop at the relaxing part. I went all the

Matt: 14:10

No.

Steve: 14:10

way. the drunk part. So, hey, it's not, it's nice to have it. We talk about life. Like you said, this, this whole podcast is about how we deal with this type of

Matt: 14:18

Yes.

Steve: 14:18

stuff and

Matt: 14:19

To

Steve: 14:19

not drink, right? And not drink. Um, so, and, and I think I got a little story, but, um, you know, I mean, we, this is what we do. You know, it's, it's how we manage it. It's how we go through And then, you know, lucky for you, lucky for me, we get to come on this podcast and talk about some of this

Matt: 14:35

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 14:35

stuff.

Matt: 14:38

That's, I mean, that's the dirty secret. And I think that's where we've found our voice with the podcast is less about how do you work step four. And I think there is, there is benefit to that, but in the end you do step four so you can live your life and feel all of the feelings that you feel in life and all of the experiences that happen in life. And you don't need to have a drink and what those tools look like because there's, you know, there's the good, I would have to drink because something good happened to manage the, the upper register and to manage the lower register. the, there were times yesterday where I was looking to leave because I wanted to rip the bandaid off. It felt like the longer I'm here, the more it feels like this thing is hanging over us.

Steve: 15:32

Mm.

Matt: 15:33

But I have, and it's hard with ADHD. It's very hard to be present. And there have been some times that I chose to be present for him. Because he will come in and get a little chat. Sometimes he doesn't want to talk it off. And then he comes in and he's chatty and it's a ramp up and I realize he's cornering me. That he has the nervous energy and has to get some stuff off. And there's times when I'm thinking I want to, you know, take the thatch rake and go out and thatch it like little is like, I have my mind focused on thatching this portion cause I want to overseed.

Steve: 16:17

Right.

Matt: 16:18

And I'm kind of in the mood to do that now, but he's cornered me and he's not going to be here in a couple of days. So I'm going to put the thatch rake down and I'm just going to listen. Because these moments will be more spaced out. And I want to remember this. And I didn't have that when I was drinking. That, um, presence to be present. And that has helped me. And a lot of, and a lot of this too, is that the, um, you know, you, you have these, you have these feelings and these feelings feel cause we were talking last night. Cause my, my middle daughter who is 14 now, she 13, 14, 14. She's going into high school. She just started high school. Uh, she melted down and we were all talking like he's not dead, but it feels like grief. You feel these feelings and it does, it feels like grief, but nobody screwed up. Nobody needs rescuing. There's nothing that needs to be repaired. Good things happen, but a good ending can still hurt. So, and I realized this morning, I got up this morning and I'm like, we were on a clock with the kids and didn't know it. Cause if he wasn't going up to school, he was going to have to get a job here or he was going to have to do something, whether it was college, living at home, college, moving two hours away, college, moving to the West coast or getting a job because high school ended. And you get into those patterns of he, because of all the classes he took, he, he didn't really have to take a lot of classes senior year. So he came strolling through the door every day at 1247. And there's that comforting feeling of, he walks through the door at 1247, even if he doesn't necessarily stay here. Because it was a, there was a lot of, Hey dad, what's up? Uh, I'm taking off. It's like, why did you walk through the door just to say hi, to turn around and leave? It would, it would make me insane because it didn't make any sense. But those moments are not happening anymore or they won't, they will be spread out by weeks and months. But this is a good thing. And it is a reminder. I looked at the kids. I'm like, we're, we're on the clock with the other two. I mean, the clock is four years away for one, six years away for the other, but, but the clock's rolling. There's going to come that time that time's up. There is no more high school to go to. You go to college, you stay at home and go to college, you go to a dorm and go to college, or you get a job. You can't just kind of exist in the home because that's not healthy. So that time ends and the relationship changes, but it is still a painful thing to have to feel. And you do it sober and you find the tools to get through it in a healthy way.

Steve: 20:48

Man, there's a lot to unpack here.

Matt: 20:50

Yeah.

Steve: 20:52

First of all, it hit me, right? I don't think about this anymore. I don't, I don't think about my son went to college in 2008. Right. He was 18 in 2008 or in 1990. So I relapsed in 2009. So in 2008, I wasn't in good shape. Right. Relapse happened for anybody out there. So we'll talk about real addiction stuff. Relapse happens many times long before you pick up a drink as mine did. Right. Years before I picked up a drink, I was in active relapse without the alcohol. And then I decided to, it was too painful to be in relapse. I mean this. It was too painful for me to be in relapse without the alcohol.

Matt: 21:30

Yeah.

Steve: 21:31

So I needed the alcohol to numb that. So, so I wasn't as available, although I would think I was as you, as you were. And I can remember my son going to school and he had some problems with women. And he would, he would call me. I can remember my son. And I, I did the best I could. Trust me. And I'm not here taking my own inventory, beating myself up. I don't do that. I really don't do that anymore. But I do realize like there were some opportunities that you talk about and like I see that you embrace in such a great way that I was unable to, I was emotionally unable to figure that out at the time. And, you know, my son having roommates that were problematic. And some of these roommates were like guys he knew from high school and then they turned out, but they, you know, they got to 18 and next thing you know, they were a problem, right? It was different. Again, my son was not a drinker or a partier. He wasn't. Never was. So he didn't go to college and become a partier, right? At, at UConn, which is a party school. Um, but he would call me up and do it and I did the best I could. Like, and most of my advice with them, like, was like, dude, you're just going to have to deal with some difficult people.

Matt: 22:38

Yeah.

Steve: 22:38

I mean, that, that, that was a lot of my advice to him. Like, yeah. I mean, even in high school, he would complain about difficult teachers and I'm like, yeah, get used to it, man. You're going to deal with a lot of difficult people in life and you got to figure out how to, you know, how to navigate that. So, um, I, you know, I didn't, I didn't step into his business. One thing I did not do, I did not step into my kid's business. Like if they had a problem at school, they, I, I never would call a teacher and say, Hey, my son is having a problem with you. What's going on?

Matt: 23:03

Oh no, me neither.

Steve: 23:05

You, right. You figure it out. So, um, and then I can remember my son being a girl. He was dating who he liked a lot, dumped him. And my son called me up, just broken, broken crying.

Matt: 23:17

Oh,

Steve: 23:18

and I felt helpless. I had no words. I had no words to tell him. I remember hanging up. Like I had no idea what to tell him and feeling horrible that I felt, I felt like a failure.

Matt: 23:30

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 23:31

And again, all this is happening right during a time where I'm about ready to pick up a drink. Um, and then, and in 2009, I did pick up a drink and right. And then 2010, I came back to the rooms and I can remember I went up to you. I went up to Yukon and said, Hey, you got some time. I want to go for a hike. And I told him like, Hey, I just want to let you know I relapsed. I'm back in the program. And we had this thing. But here's my point. It's like those moments that you described are not going to go away. My son reaches out to me more now than he ever did. Hey dad, how about this? How about that? And my son also has a really good relationship with his father-in-law who happens to live two miles away. Well, now, now probably 10 miles away, which is a little bit, you know, again, you know, I'm a, I'm a human being.

Matt: 24:17

Yeah.

Steve: 24:17

You know, I'm a human being that sort of like sometimes I could feel bad, but I'm also, I like his father-in-law. And it's like, I'm glad he has him,

Matt: 24:25

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 24:25

right? So he has a great relationship and he, and he comes to me with stuff that he needs to come to me with. So, um, that's, that'll always be there. And it hit me, right? I, here's what I think. And it's true. I don't cry as easily as you do. Like you're a more emotional guy at this point than I am.

Matt: 24:43

I wasn't, I had trouble crying for the longest time until I started this medicine

Steve: 24:48

Right.

Matt: 24:48

taper and it's like, oh my God, the emotions

Steve: 24:50

Yeah.

Matt: 24:50

of who I really am came back.

Steve: 24:52

But I do think a good cry, like I know when I need to do that. And

Matt: 24:57

Yeah.

Steve: 24:57

for me, like I could pick up a song and when you're talking about what you're talking about your son, what he'd come and talk to you and you want to thatch, I thought of Jim Crothee, father and son, right? That song. Um, and I could put on that song with my son and I could sob while I listened to that song and think about how that happened, right? Where my son would ask for my attention and I was too busy, right? And I can't give you that attention now because I'm too busy because I got to go thatch the lawn instead of talking to you, which I did often. This is what I'm saying. I actually went and thatched the lawn many times when I should have been standing with my son.

Matt: 25:35

Yep.

Steve: 25:35

Um, and then all of a sudden my son is now 36, um, has three young children at home and I don't have that contact with him anymore. Right. And that's what that whole song is about. Like my son's too busy to, to engage with me now. Right. Um, and, and every once in a while I need to sit with that and I need to sob over that. Right. Um, and I don't need to do it as much anymore because I, now I reach out to my son. I do stuff like I make sure that there's a contact with him. Right. Um, all, all of those things. And again, come back and we come back to our program and our sobriety. None of this happens with my relationship. I've talked about it. One of the most difficult relationships that I had to repair when I got sober was with my son.

Matt: 26:22

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 26:22

Right. It was one of the biggest amends I had to make. First of the biggest one was probably to his mom. Who was, you know, my first wife, um, probably my current wife, Sue, and then, and then my son.

Matt: 26:36

Yep.

Steve: 26:37

Like those were the three biggest amends I had to make. And I had to rebuild a relationship that I did not do a good job with because most of his life, either I was, you know, either I was drinking early on or I was a dry drunk without a program for a good portion of his life. And, uh, it wasn't until he was much older that I got sober for good. And, um, and then I was able to start repairing that. So, it, you know, it's a beautiful thing that we, we could have this, we could have these emotions, we can have this opportunity. We can go through this, you can go there and it gets easier. Your son, your son's going to do fine. You

Matt: 27:13

know.

Steve: 27:13

know,

Matt: 27:13

Oh,

Steve: 27:13

you

Matt: 27:14

he's going to be great.

Steve: 27:15

Right. You know, he's going to do fine. He's a good student. He's a good athlete. He's like you said, he's social. He's all this. Um, he's going to do fine. He's not going to, you know, hopefully, you know, and probably not, you know, he won't get caught up in the, in, in the everything else, the whole party stuff. And, uh, he'll go on and do some good stuff.

Matt: 27:34

Yeah. I asked about your daughter because there are studies that show the longer you delay your use of alcohol, the more positive outcomes you have. The earlier, the closer to addiction. And he's never, I don't think he's really ever had alcohol. We have talked about it a lot. He is very frank with me knowing his family history, that he is very cautious with it. He also doesn't like the calories. There's the health aspect of, I, I don't want something that holds back my athleticism.

Steve: 28:10

Mm-hmm.

Matt: 28:11

And he's talked about supporting sloppy friends. Like he, he, his friends went to Yukon a day or two before him. And long story short, they dove in head first and were hurling the next morning.

Steve: 28:27

Right.

Matt: 28:28

And he's like rolling their eyes at him. It's like they were, and I listened to this and I'm like, they're a bunch of amateurs. Like they, they, they didn't know their limits. They dove right in and they're like, I can't believe how bad I feel. This is terrible.

Steve: 28:43

Right. Well, you got to start somewhere. Right. So, and that's a, that's a typical starting point for many. Right. For, for us, it was a lot younger or for me, it was a lot younger. Um, But you know, for many, it is that first time I'm away from home. Nobody knows I can go get slop. I can go get sloppy drunk. I'm, I'm walking back to my dorm room. I do have some people around me, right? Like there's that, there's a whole security thing, right? Everybody's doing it. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a typical thing. And I'm not saying that never happened with my son. We never talked, but I, I too believe that my kids. Probably through the urging of their mother, um, said, you know, be careful with alcohol. And I, I did. I always talk about it. Like

Matt: 29:27

yeah.

Steve: 29:28

my kids were like, when my kids were like 14, I had the talk with them

Matt: 29:32

Oh God. I've

Steve: 29:32

and

Matt: 29:33

had

Steve: 29:33

the talk. Well,

Matt: 29:34

with that.

Steve: 29:34

right. And I, and I wasn't talk wasn't about just about sex. It was, but it was also about alcohol and drug use and the decisions they were going to need to make. Because they were at that point where they were going to start having some unsupervised time with their friends away from

Matt: 29:50

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 29:50

us. Right. 14, 15, 16 years old. And I just told them like, you guys have to make some decisions that mom and I can't help you make. You know, we, you, we're not going to be there. Um, so you're going to have to choose wisely because they can be life changing, right? They can be life changing if there's sex and you get pregnant and all those things. And, or if you, you know, you get drunk and whatever they might be. And I, and I had that talk with them. So there was a lot of one. We didn't talk about it regularly, but there was a lot. And I also told them, you can come to me at any time, any point and talk to me. Or if you get in a situation, I say this all the time. I told them, you know, I will come get you out of any situation you're ever in. No matter how bad it might seem, you call me, I'll come get you. Um, no strings attached. Like we may have to, we may have to talk about it another day, but that day we don't have to talk about it. I'm just going to come get you out, keep you safe. And then, and then we'll figure out from there. So my kids knew that, right? So they had that type of security and they had that type of opportunity to go out and be themselves, but also know that, that, you know, they were, they were cared for and, and, and that, uh, they, they had something to back them up. Right. And like I said, your son is going to do great. Um, I don't know your son. Well, like, it's not like I know him and I think, Oh yeah, he's a great kid. Cause I don't know him that well, but just the way you talk about him, he's going to be fine. He's an athlete. Is he going to play volleyball there?

Matt: 31:11

Yes. He was recruited to play D3 volleyball.

Steve: 31:16

Good for him.

Matt: 31:17

We've had the conversation that you are now no longer the best player in the team. You're not the captain anymore. And you may not play this year. You may be riding the pine. You may not, but you may. And there were a lot of, he was taking, uh, advanced placement classes. Like he was taking AP French. And telling me how boring it was because it was so damn easy. Like some of these classes that are like beyond me, I've seen his homework. And I've looked at that and I'm like, this might as well be a foreign language. I can

Steve: 31:52

Yeah.

Matt: 31:53

do nothing to help you. You would have to teach me. And it was stuff like he could sleep through the class and he gets A's. And I'm like, some of those same classes now may mystify you. They may not. But you may walk in and say, how the hell was this so easy? And now I am as lost as lost can be. And that jump up to college sometimes can feel that way. Uh, this is now totally a different ball game. And I was not prepared and ready for this degree of difficulty. And the workload could be of like, oh my God, I cannot believe you're asking for this much work this quickly. And how am I going to do this in volleyball? So we've had sort of those conversations and I'm like, that's okay. Just be prepared. It may happen. And then it may not happen. And we had converse and there were time, my wife and I were talking this morning. Like, you remember he didn't want to do things and he'd literally drag his feet and be stubborn. And we, I had a lot of conversations with him, small ones over time around go see the teacher, stay after school, take a, take a retest. If they do it, do your homework every day, do your homework. Like, you built good relationships with your teachers in high school. in college grades are more negotiable. You need to have a great relationship with every single professor and talk to them because the more that they see you're invested, the more that they are going to be willing to, if it's, if it's, you know, between like an A minus and an A, I'll bump you up. If not, they may bump you down because I had it firsthand. I had the same teacher who I was a shit and he bumped me down. A couple of years later, I took the same class and I was a changed person and the way I approached it was different and I got a better grade because of it.

Steve: 34:09

uh, two, two things before we sign off. The first thing is, um, my daughter started school in kindergarten when she was four. She's an October, late October baby.

Matt: 34:18

Oh, she's

Steve: 34:18

She

Matt: 34:18

like,

Steve: 34:18

wouldn't be,

Matt: 34:19

I was, I was a November kid.

Steve: 34:20

Right. Right. So she wouldn't be in, they changed it. She wouldn't be available to go to kindergarten. And you have to be five by September 1st. So, and, and so she couldn't, so my daughter struggled like, like she was very quiet and stuff like that. The first few years, my daughter struggled. Like she was not like first, second, third grade. She was behind. There was no, and I remember being where like, she was behind. Um, so it took my daughter a while to catch up. I just told the story last night. I took physics to an, at UConn as part of my curriculum, um, electroengineering. And I struggled with it. I thought I was going to fail the class. I got a C, which is basically at UConn. If a C is a, they're just passing you through, like literally, they are just passing you through. If you get a C at UConn. Um, and that's what I got in physics too. My daughter took physics too as a six week summer course. Um, so compressed and aced it.

Matt: 35:15

Hmm.

Steve: 35:16

And I said to her, I'm like, I took that same course and I barely passed. And, and she took it and aced it. So I think, I think Owen's going to do fine.

Matt: 35:27

Yeah.

Steve: 35:27

School. Um, and, and just to end this on a lighter note is that when we, when we do this podcast, a lot of times Matt has his screen blurred, so I can't see the background, but he doesn't have his screen blurred today.

Matt: 35:40

Yeah.

Steve: 35:41

So this whole podcast, I've been looking

Matt: 35:44

dog

Steve: 35:44

at his laying on the couch with his legs open and his junk all hung out and I didn't break character. So, um, I think I did

Matt: 35:55

job.

Steve: 35:55

a pretty

Matt: 35:55

I

Steve: 35:55

good

Matt: 35:55

didn't even think about that. That is now I'm looking at my own picture and I,

Steve: 35:59

he, he, he moved finally. But for most of the podcast, he was laying there on his back, legs wide open, everything open to the world. So

Matt: 36:08

when, when I'm working for the most part now, that's where he is and I'm leaving. Sometimes he appears and he disappears and I don't know when he comes and goes cause he'll do it quietly, but that is sort of his regular.

Steve: 36:22

Yeah. Plus he blends into that. His color blends into that. So.

Matt: 36:26

Yep.

Steve: 36:26

It's hard to see whether that's him or a cushion. Anyway.

Matt: 36:31

Yep.

Steve: 36:32

That's it.

Matt: 36:34

Yeah. That's it. The thing to, to walk away from listening is

Steve: 36:40

me.

Matt: 36:40

Is something actually wrong, or does it just hurt? And that doesn't have to be a bad thing, and you don't have to medicate, and you don't have to wallow in it, but you can feel it, and you know, the pain helps you resolve, and you don't have to run from it, and you can do that sober, and it can be a beautiful thing. So, you know where to find us, soberfriendspod.com, on all the socials, and Steve, we'll see everybody next week.

Steve: 37:13

Thanks.

Matt: 37:13

Later, everybody.